Hey Ford!!! Screw you guys!!!!


8thTon

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OK, back on topic - why do they want such accurate base cam timing when they have camshaft position sensors and can vary the timing? On my Fiat 1.4 there is only one true cam (exhaust) and it isn't variable. The intake is "virtual" and completely variable. So it makes sense why they'd want better control of the cam timing there, but it looks like the Ford 1.5 has both cams variable.

It appears that the camshaft position sensor gets a look at the cam once each revolution - it looks like there is a feature in the cam forging part way down the cam. My bet it that they get a good relative measure of cam angle, so that they can tell the difference between 10 and 12 degrees, for example, but I bet the absolute accuracy of the position sensor is not that good. The crankshaft position sensor is looking at a lot of teeth, it has pretty good resolution and accuracy. So I think that's why they still need the cam timing to be set accurately - they can't tell the absolute cam angle very accurately, they can only see it moving accurately, and they only get to look at it once a cam revolution.

BTW, not that it answers this question, but some interesting detail: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/191686-close-look-fords-new-1-5l-3-cylinder-dragon-petrol-engine.html
 


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rusty ol ranger

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OK, back on topic - why do they want such accurate base cam timing when they have camshaft position sensors and can vary the timing? On my Fiat 1.4 there is only one true cam (exhaust) and it isn't variable. The intake is "virtual" and completely variable. So it makes sense why they'd want better control of the cam timing there, but it looks like the Ford 1.5 has both cams variable.

It appears that the camshaft position sensor gets a look at the cam once each revolution - it looks like there is a feature in the cam forging part way down the cam. My bet it that they get a good relative measure of cam angle, so that they can tell the difference between 10 and 12 degrees, for example, but I bet the absolute accuracy of the position sensor is not that good. The crankshaft position sensor is looking at a lot of teeth, it has pretty good resolution and accuracy. So I think that's why they still need the cam timing to be set accurately - they can't tell the absolute cam angle very accurately, they can only see it moving accurately, and they only get to look at it once a cam revolution.

BTW, not that it answers this question, but some interesting detail: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/191686-close-look-fords-new-1-5l-3-cylinder-dragon-petrol-engine.html
Everything on new engines revolve around one thing....emissions.

The more accurate they can control every aspect of combustion (including cam timing) means less emissions.

Reliabilty/serviceability is an afterthought. Maybe.
 

19Walt93

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Variable cam timing can't tell where the cam is positioned and correct it. If the PCM calls for X degrees of movement, that's what it gets- assuming the oil has been changed often enough to prevent the phasers being full of sludge. The cam has to be timed properly when assembled.
Someone said no on would install a Ford engine in their 150,000 mile car, we used to sell a fair number of Ford reman engines an transmissions for high mileage vehicles. Even in road salt encrusted NH, cars and trucks last long enough now to wear out drive train parts. We used to replace rusted through oil pans on plow trucks all the time, a plastic oil pan won't rust, contains oil as well as steel and is much cheaper than aluminum. Plastic valve covers are fine with me,too.
 

8thTon

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Everything on new engines revolve around one thing....emissions.

The more accurate they can control every aspect of combustion (including cam timing) means less emissions.

Reliabilty/serviceability is an afterthought. Maybe.
I like clean air. Also, fuel that does not burn makes no power, and there’s a reason these small engines are making so much power.
 

85_Ranger4x4

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Variable cam timing can't tell where the cam is positioned and correct it. If the PCM calls for X degrees of movement, that's what it gets- assuming the oil has been changed often enough to prevent the phasers being full of sludge. The cam has to be timed properly when assembled.
Someone said no on would install a Ford engine in their 150,000 mile car, we used to sell a fair number of Ford reman engines an transmissions for high mileage vehicles. Even in road salt encrusted NH, cars and trucks last long enough now to wear out drive train parts. We used to replace rusted through oil pans on plow trucks all the time, a plastic oil pan won't rust, contains oil as well as steel and is much cheaper than aluminum. Plastic valve covers are fine with me,too.
A few do but most opt for a used engine anymore when the miles start getting up there.

Especially with a car, they don't retain value very well to justify a reman engine installed in a dealer once they start getting age/mileage on them.

I like clean air. Also, fuel that does not burn makes no power, and there’s a reason these small engines are making so much power.
But what if you prefer a 200hp big block that gets 8mpg?
 

8thTon

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But what if you prefer a 200hp big block that gets 8mpg?
Then see if you can get someone to make one for you or make it yourself. But just because someone wants something doesn't mean someone else has to manufacture it.
 

don4331

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Everything revolves around cost.

Honda has been manufacturing open deck engines for going on 3 decades, yet Honda has an enviable record for their engines. But there's devil in details between getting right and getting it wrong. And then there is the case of parts at limits of tolerance being a combination that doesn't work. Yes, when the machine was new it hit tolerances of +/- 0.0005" but is it still doing so after a 100k engines, after 1M?

I always though Chevrolet got it backwards with aluminum block and cast iron head.

Design being made pay for warranty repairs = changes are made to get out of warranty period.

Ford is catering to segment of population with money (old geezers)...surprise, surprise. IHNSHO, they (and GM) have lost direction - Used to be your 1st car was a Chevrolet as they were cheapest thing on the lot, you worked your way up through a Pontiac, a Buick and if you were truly successful made it to a Cadillac, then you retired to an Olds (Might have Olds & Buick reversed) FoMoCo sort of emulated with Ford -> Mercury -> Lincoln. I sort of wished my son/daughter could get a Ford Bronco II with TTB/solid front axle and 2.9, I could have a Mercury Mountaineer with IFS and 4.0 and uncle Money bags would have his Lincoln Navigator.

We could always have Japanese law where you need the car inspected after 3 years, and by 10 years the inspections are annual (No lift/lowering, no tint, engines must pass current emissions, etc). And if Or Ireland where you pay >$5k in registration/base insurance* for anything with >3l engine.

I wished I have a silver bullet for adms08, but unless we start paying automotive manufacturers x$/year to keep old cars on the road, what is the incentive to make them last beyond warranty.
 

85_Ranger4x4

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Then see if you can get someone to make one for you or make it yourself. But just because someone wants something doesn't mean someone else has to manufacture it.
Hey! The customer is always right!

(I am being sarcastic with all this)
 

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If momma wants to haul the kids buy her a damn minivan.
Take your 1950s sexist sh!t somewhere else. My wife makes well over $100k a year... Mama buys whatever the F**K she wants!!
 

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200.gif
 

rusty ol ranger

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Take your 1950s sexist sh!t somewhere else. My wife makes well over $100k a year... Mama buys whatever the F**K she wants!!
Jesus christ the tears are deep around here lately.
 

rusty ol ranger

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adsm08

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Hey! The customer is always right!

This is not what AT&T and Samsung told me this morning when I asked which phone comes without any sort of facial recognition software installed.
 


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