Hey Ford!!! Screw you guys!!!!


adsm08

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I have questions for Ford. I have issues with Ford and the way they are designing/building vehicles, specifically the engines. I want to contact the design team to ask them why they stopped putting keyways on the cams and cranks. Nobody can tell me how to contact the people I want to talk to.

I've asked Ford's Tech Hotline, their response "Yeah, it's a dumb design, we don't know how to contact that group". I checked Ford's website, no information aside from the design team "exists". I just got done with a "live chat" with Ford's customer service who referred me to the dealership service center. I AM THE FREAKING DEALERSHIP SERVICE CENTER!!!!

I just put a 1.5 together today. I had to replace the short block because some retard at Ford OK'd for production a design that has an open faced water jacket against the head, between the cylinders. Surprise surprise it blows out the head gaskets. My 7 yo could have predicted that. I showed him a picture of that block and he said "daddy, that was a dumb idea".

So I've spent the last half of my week fixing yet another one of Ford's totally predictable and preventable f**kups and at the very end, just when I thought I was done I ran afoul of another one. MF'ers thought a non-keyed crank, and two non-keyed cams was an acceptable design. I used all new hardware, used all their special tools, the cam aligning plate, the phaser aligning dog-bone, the crank stop pin to set cylinder 1 and TDC, the crank locking tool that bites onto the flywheel teeth, all of it. I held the cams with the 21 wrench on the hex. I torqued the bolts by the book. Cam bolts, 18 ft.lbs + 75 degrees. Crank bolt 75 ft lbs, + 90 degrees, plus 15 degrees. Rotated it twice around to install and torque my torque converter nuts, brought it back to TDC and slipped all the cam aligning tools in nice and easy. It was in time.

So I put the little bastard engine back in it's MFing home, hooked it all up, fired it up, and it sat and idled in my bay smooth as glass for 10 minutes. I tried to back it out and it died and wouldn't re-start. Now I have a P0016, Crankshaft position- Camshaft position correlation error, Bank 1 sensor A. The fracking intake cam jumped time.

I am at least the third person I know of that this has happened to. Two of us are Senior Master Techs. I haven't torn mine back apart yet, but in the other two cases the phasers skipped on the cam after everything was tightened.

Golly gee whiz. I bet a MF'ing keywayed f**king camshaft could have prevented that. But you bastards at Corporate were too lazy, cheap, stupid, or all three, to figure that out and do it. "Oh no, friction will hold it together even after it's all soaked in oil".

Ford, you people are idiots, you need to start building the vehicles right again, or stop doing it altogether. I want to talk to your people directly, I want answers about why you are half assing things, and I don't want to hear anything that even gets into the same state of matter as "but my production costs".
 
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adsm08

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The whole idea is to throw the vehicle together as cheap and quickly as possible. Keys and keyways cost money to make and install.
I don't care about production costs. I want a vehicle that can stay together after I am done putting it together.
 

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Really. Keys and keyways are not that difficult or complicated. They've been used for hundreds of years.

Maybe when you do that job again, after everything is timed and tight. Drill a hole in the end, centered on the mating line of the two parts. Tap it. Install a set screw with Loctite.
 

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Really. Keys and keyways are not that difficult or complicated. They've been used for hundreds of years.

Maybe when you do that job again, after everything is timed and tight. Drill a hole in the end, centered on the mating line of the two parts. Tap it. Install a set screw with Loctite.
I am currently uninterested in engineering and implementing my own fixes to Ford's fuckups. Frankly I'm tempted to box this engine up, with the timing tools, ship it to Ken Hackett with a note that reads "You fix it".
 

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Yes, the elimination of the machining of key ways and slots in gears will be cheaper, and friction fit "should" hold the timing on the engine "while under warranty"
So it will be a few years before enough numbers are in to decide if its cheaper to skip the keys or repair the engines, under warranty

I am guessing skipping the keys saves more money

But if a gear does slip.............I would think you would have to replace the crank and crank gear, or cam and cam gear
If it slipped then friction fit wouldn't work again, like it didn't work the first time
 
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Send it Certified Mail with Return Receipt marked so only he can sign for it. I think that might get his attention...
 

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Cams and cranks are fished in a CNC machine. A tool change and cutting a keyway should literally only take a couple of minutes. Installing a keyed gear on the cam and crank would easily take less time than using all of those ridiculous and costly tools to hold everything in place while it's tightened down. The whole design is illogical and unneeded.
 

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engines is no goes vroom?
 

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I have questions for Ford. I have issues with Ford and the way they are designing/building vehicles, specifically the engines. I want to contact the design team to ask them why they stopped putting keyways on the cams and cranks. Nobody can tell me how to contact the people I want to talk to.

I've asked Ford's Tech Hotline, their response "Yeah, it's a dumb design, we don't know how to contact that group". I checked Ford's website, no information aside from the design team "exists". I just got done with a "live chat" with Ford's customer service who referred me to the dealership service center. I AM THE FREAKING DEALERSHIP SERVICE CENTER!!!!

I just put a 1.5 together today. I had to replace the short block because some retard at Ford OK'd for production a design that has an open faced water jacket against the head, between the cylinders. Surprise surprise it blows out the head gaskets. My 7 yo could have predicted that. I showed him a picture of that block and he said "daddy, that was a dumb idea".

So I've spent the last half of my week fixing yet another one of Ford's totally predictable and preventable f**kups and at the very end, just when I thought I was done I ran afoul of another one. MF'ers thought a non-keyed crank, and two non-keyed cams was an acceptable design. I used all new hardware, used all their special tools, the cam aligning plate, the phaser aligning dog-bone, the crank stop pin to set cylinder 1 and TDC, the crank locking tool that bites onto the flywheel teeth, all of it. I held the cams with the 21 wrench on the hex. I torqued the bolts by the book. Cam bolts, 18 ft.lbs + 75 degrees. Crank bolt 75 ft lbs, + 90 degrees, plus 15 degrees. Rotated it twice around to install and torque my torque converter nuts, brought it back to TDC and slipped all the cam aligning tools in nice and easy. It was in time.

So I put the little bastard engine back in it's MFing home, hooked it all up, fired it up, and it sat and idled in my bay smooth as glass for 10 minutes. I tried to back it out and it died and wouldn't re-start. Now I have a P0016, Crankshaft position- Camshaft position correlation error, Bank 1 sensor A. The fracking intake cam jumped time.

I am at least the third person I know of that this has happened to. Two of us are Senior Master Techs. I haven't torn mine back apart yet, but in the other two cases the phasers skipped on the cam after everything was tightened.

Golly gee whiz. I bet a MF'ing keywayed f**king camshaft could have prevented that. But you bastards at Corporate were too lazy, cheap, stupid, or all three, to figure that out and do it. "Oh no, friction will hold it together even after it's all soaked in oil".

Ford, you people are idiots, you need to start building the vehicles right again, or stop doing it altogether. I want to talk to your people directly, I want answers about why you are half assing things, and I don't want to hear anything that even gets into the same state of matter as "but my production costs".
And people have the audacity to bitch about 2.9 & 3.0.

**** every part of that.

I'll chip in on shipping. All of my sh*t will eventually get totaled by a basic on a phone. I don't want to have to deal with this sh*t.
 

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I am currently uninterested in engineering and implementing my own fixes to Ford's mistakes. Frankly I'm tempted to box this engine up, with the timing tools, ship it to Ken Hackett with a note that reads "You fix it".
FIFY. Just a thought, friend. You might want to drop the F-bomb from the post before a moderator catches it. Rumour has it they don't like that word.

I know. You'd rather I just shut up about it. Me harping on your for it is the last thing you need. I get that. I'm only making the suggestion because I like you, and I don't want to see you get the boot.
 

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FIFY. Just a thought, friend. You might want to drop the F-bomb from the post before a moderator catches it. Rumour has it they don't like that word.

I know. You'd rather I just shut up about it. Me harping on your for it is the last thing you need. I get that. I'm only making the suggestion because I like you, and I don't want to see you get the boot.
tenor (36).gif
 

adsm08

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FIFY. Just a thought, friend. You might want to drop the F-bomb from the post before a moderator catches it. Rumour has it they don't like that word.

I know. You'd rather I just shut up about it. Me harping on your for it is the last thing you need. I get that. I'm only making the suggestion because I like you, and I don't want to see you get the boot.
The term mistake implies a degree of unintentionally to the action. They built it like this on purpose, ergo not an actual mistake.
 

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Hmm, this sounds similar to the cam timing procedure I've been reading about on my Fiat 1.4. I wasn't understanding why the timing belt replacement required all those special tools until it was pointed out they were not keyed. I have not read about slipping yet though.

I'm wondering if cost was the motivation - I suspect they want to set cam timing closer than +/-1 belt/chain tooth.
 


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