Having trouble setting timing

[rhaase6]

I picked up my first Ranger (1993, 4x2, automatic, 3.0L) this summer. It had been sitting for a while, and the bolt that held the distributor in place was loose, so the timing was all kinds of whacky. Didn't have a timing light on hand at first, so I set the timing by feel after changing the plugs. I have a light now, and I wanted to do it right, but something definitely is NOT right.

I followed what seems to be the standard procedure: warm up the engine, turn it off, unplug the SPOUT connector (little gray thing by the driver's headlight), loosen the distributor, turn the engine on, set timing to 10 deg BTDC with the light, lock the dizzy, turn it off, plug the SPOUT connector back in, enjoy your new timing. Simple, right? Apparently not...

I should have known something was up because my initial reading showed way below 0 degrees, let's call it NEGATIVE 10. I cranked the distributor all the way to the right, timing went up to 10, engine seemed to run ok, maybe a little pinging, but I figured that was normal. Turned it off, plugged the SPOUT connector back in, when I started it back up, it took a lot of effort to crank, and ran awful! That's where I left it for the night.

What might be going on here? PCM issue? Was that not really a SPOUT connector? Something ignition-related not in the right spot?

Thanks in advance!

(Get it? Advance?!... I'll show myself out... )

 

[ericbphoto]

93 3.0l, the spout is out by the radiator, behind left headlight. You got that.

Double check your plug wire connections and firing order.

Double check that the distributor is positioned properly for cylinder 1 TDC on the compression stroke. If that's wrong, you'll never get it set.

 

[franklin2]

Did the 3.0 ever have problems with the balancers slipping? And like was mentioned, make double sure your timing light is on #1 plug wire.

You didn't do any major engine work, so it's unusual that it was so far off. That can be a hint that it really wasn't that far off. If you can sort of set it back where it was to get it running halfway, maybe you can then study the situation and figure out what went wrong.

There is a procedure also to check to see if the balancer has slipped. I wouldn't do this unless someone with more knowledge on the 3.0 says yes, they are known for slipping.

 

[ericbphoto]

Did the 3.0 ever have problems with the balancers slipping? And like was mentioned, make double sure your timing light is on #1 plug wire.

You didn't do any major engine work, so it's unusual that it was so far off. That can be a hint that it really wasn't that far off. If you can sort of set it back where it was to get it running halfway, maybe you can then study the situation and figure out what went wrong.

There is a procedure also to check to see if the balancer has slipped. I wouldn't do this unless someone with more knowledge on the 3.0 says yes, they are known for slipping.

On the 97 I have disassembled, the balancer is keyed. Not sure about my 93, but I would expect it to be keyed also.

 

[franklin2]

On the 97 I have disassembled, the balancer is keyed. Not sure about my 93, but I would expect it to be keyed also.

Most balancers are the solid metal hub with the key like you mention, and then they have a rubber ring molded on the outside of the hub and then another metal ring around that. The outer metal ring of course is the one with the timing marks on it.

If you get some oil leaks, and along with old age, some engines are noted for the rubber to break loose and the outer metal ring can migrate around and that throws your timing marks off. It happens all the time on small chevies and the small block Fords. I am assuming it can happen to most all different types of engines, but it seems to happen more on certain ones.

 

[ericbphoto]

Most balancers are the solid metal hub with the key like you mention, and then they have a rubber ring molded on the outside of the hub and then another metal ring around that. The outer metal ring of course is the one with the timing marks on it.

If you get some oil leaks, and along with old age, some engines are noted for the rubber to break loose and the outer metal ring can migrate around and that throws your timing marks off. It happens all the time on small chevies and the small block Fords. I am assuming it can happen to most all different types of engines, but it seems to happen more on certain ones.

Thanks. I didn't realize that's what slips.

 

[rhaase6]

That's great info, thanks! I haven't had a chance to look into it yet, but in the event that I get cylinder 1 at TDC and find my timing marks are off, what should I do? Re-create new marks somehow, or actually get the ring back in place somehow? I definitely do have oil leaks. 276k on the clock.

 

[ericbphoto]

Once it slips, you probably can't fix it. You will need a new balancer.

Hopefully the problem is something simpler.

 

[franklin2]

That's great info, thanks! I haven't had a chance to look into it yet, but in the event that I get cylinder 1 at TDC and find my timing marks are off, what should I do? Re-create new marks somehow, or actually get the ring back in place somehow? I definitely do have oil leaks. 276k on the clock.

I looked on rockauto and they want about $60 for a new balancer.

The best way to check the old balancer is to get a old sparkplug and knock the guts out of it. Then weld or somehow get a piece of metal mounted to it that will stick our of the end of the plug. Then make sure #1 piston is down, and screw the new "piston stop tool" in the sparkplug hole. Gently turn the engine around till #1 piston contacts the stop. Make a mark on the balancer where the pointer is. Then gently turn the engine around the other way till it again stops on the piston stop. Make another mark where the pointer is located.

You should have two marks on the balancer now. Measure between the marks, divide that by 2 and make a mark. That is TDC exactly on #1. The factory timing mark for TDC should be right there.

If it's way off, then you know what happened. If you are easy on the engine and don't rev it hard, the balancer may stay where it's at for awhile till you get time to change it. You can use your new mark you made as the official #1 TDC, and if you measure from the old factory mark to the 10 BTDC mark, and then duplicate this from your new TDC mark, you could use that to time the engine till you are able to get it changed out. As long as the distributor stays tight, and the old balancer doesn't fly apart, you can drive it like this forever.

 

[pjtoledo]

any short piece of wire, hell even a pencil can be used to find TDC. when the engine is on a stand you can look and actually see the top of the piston at TDC
get some sandpaper and clean the timing marks, you may be surprised at what you thought you were looking at.

 

[franklin2]

any short piece of wire, hell even a pencil can be used to find TDC. when the engine is on a stand you can look and actually see the top of the piston at TDC
get some sandpaper and clean the timing marks, you may be surprised at what you thought you were looking at.

When the piston comes up and the crank throw swings over center, there is a lot of movement there of the crankshaft. Enough movement that would throw the TDC mark off more than you think. There is not much distance between the marks. That is why the piston stop method is a more accurate way to get the actual TDC marked on the damper.

 

[pjtoledo]

you can get real close with the "primitive " method, easily close enough to tell if the ring has slipped.
with a couple tries within 2 degrees is doable.


I have a 3.0 on a stand now, recently had a degree wheel on it to check things out.