Good electric fans to use

[bobbywalter]

With no belt you aren't spining an alternator, power steering pump, and water pump either so that accounts for your power loss.

yes...

that is and was always completely understood.

only regret was not draining the block to see what just that system did under spin up with no pump load.....and then we would know exactly what the water pump was costing....

i had a hard time believing that a serp system....especially in that particular configuration with no load could produce that much drag....i mean 3 v belts and big body steering pump and alternator and ac compressor.....sure...and maybe a direct drive fan....

never would i have suspected a clutch fan would use much power...it was quite a let down.

i was totally wrong. and i am wrong alot....just not now.

the question is whether a ranger mechanical fan is more efficient then an electric fan swap...



as you stated....once something is turning and up to speed it does not use any serious power.......but it is using power. and it is detectable in many cases....thus the clutch fan is regarded from idle to cruise simply as 1hp as a rule of thumb when it is off...and direct mount fans around 8 or so for that range. as that is the data for systems this size account for.



that said...i used a flex fan...17 inch when i originally swapped to a v8 back in 95 for my application because it was the most trustworthy setup as i had seen it for a truck. we built 3 trucks at pretty much the same time...two cobras and a 351 ho....the 351 truck was a rebuild from its first 302 swap...and converted from 2wd to 4x4.

the flex fan i chose seemed like it worked much better at idle then the mustang mechanical.. on paper it was a no brainer.. the goal was low speed airflow when wheeling in the woods...

we had the trucks side by side and did the rag test.....i was running a re-necked dakota v8 radiator and a 3 in body lift and the setup was perfect....and the sister truck to mine was running a 304 v8 jeep radiator.....so that test was apple to oranges literally...and the 351 truck was running a 25x19 aluminum unit...previously had an aa unit and a ho truck fan d/d initially.

i preferred efi and i thought what i had was perfect. i had worked on a few dozen various swaps in one form or another at that point... so i had high confidence in my thoughts...

but it did not take long to get sick of the c4....fuel economy was relatively non existent compared to the 12-14 i was getting with the previous 2.9... and i was sick of going 70-75 mph turning 34-3600 rpm and overheating all of the time.. after busting a few c4's in short order, i knew i needed to upgrade...and a c6 was not the answer.

so in with the aod.... totally happy with that setup initially. i was able to go to work in shorter periods of time...fuel economy was increased to par with the 2.9..so that was good..plus it did not bog down to 55 or less on hills....and could pass on two lanes with 33 in tires instead of bogging out.

.but my totally awesome flex fan was eating my 40 dollar belts and tearing up water pumps.... plus now it was noisy as hell and starting to drive me crazy...something it never did before because of my drive cycle at that time.....

this fan was howling at my new 24-2600 rpm cruise speed where that particular fan was full glory in its ability to pull air. turns out...with a lifted ranger the ram air effect is minimized and drag is maximized by the dirty air that goes under the rig....this is serious drag...i went to the mark 7 clutch fan to quiet things down and on the road it was awesome....picked up a point of mpg and was ecstatic..still was getting cruise oscillation on temperature but that is another issue with increased atf temp load....

but that was all it was good for....flat ground......

off road.....it was causing fitment issues while 4 wheeling....like totaling radiators when i was twisted up climbing hills.....it did ok on the street.....but my favorite thing to do....off roading....was not good.



i did not like electric fans for my particular use scenario...i was convinced they were not as reliable for a truck that had to travel down harsh lease roads to get to job sights in the middle of no where and i had evidence that they were not reliable....i just did not really properly vet the evidence.

long story short....i gave in and started using electric...mpg went up again....reliability went up...belt life went up.....noise and vibration went down... waterpump life went way up... best thing i ever did was install the electric fan...the amount of experimentation from there went 15 years.


by definition....a properly sized and installed clutch fan can not be more efficient then a properly installed electric fan...

the key is in the definition.


can the mechanical fan pull more air? fawk yeah it can....it has a 100 hp to work with.... not 1 or 2 horsepower... but that engine will be revving to pull that air.......because the amount of air it pulls, just like any fixed blade.... has a specific rpm where it is max..


but with a fixed nylon blade there is also a cavitation point...when over speed...



for sure a stock ranger fan can pull more air then the engine needs...and can beat most small electric fans in actual max cfm and any of the shelf junk at the parts store....

but it sure as fawk wont do it at idle.

because they are not more efficient. they are a compromise.....better then a direct drive. and that is about all one can say.

 

[bobbywalter]

I’ve never actually seen an electric water pump in person. I’ve seen a couple in videos and such, but none in person.

well....you have never owned an x3 then. electric waterpumps commercially been on beamers since 06 or so...


like timing belts....you need to change them early if your smart. for those...50-60 k intervals on the pumps

Omg.


E-fans always more efficient than mechanical fans.


Anyone who's ever hot rodded anything knows this.. it's pretty much a rule.

Switch to roller rockers? +10hp.

Electric water pump? +10hp

E-fan? +10hp

Forever and always.

ya know......when ya know.....you know.

ya know?




to be fair...electric pumps are more for cooling efficiency at high speed of the whole engine for 40-80 hp cold engine gain...when drag racing...and not for actual recovery of 5 to 10 parasitic horsepower....but that helps too. in this case its true compounding efficiency.


i have to admit i am shocked this discussion can actually be a thing in 2023....you have google.. of course i cant find the data and white papers i was hoping to...so yeah...fuk gogglez.


i know some guys that worked on this project...

https://wasteadvantagemag.com/advertising/




i work with compressor station geeks too....i will never be that smart.



it is comedy though sometimes....there was even times early on like late 90,s to 2012 or so guys were regularly telling us an electric fan could never reliably cool a 400 hp 302....how the fawk can that happen? how can someone believe that...

i had been running a 300 hp v8 in a ranger for over 3/4 million miles at that point...and had helped build a few swaps over 600 hp... and just wondered if they had actually left their yards growing up.

one particularly funny guy said it was onll because of front wheel drive that cars used electric fans, and trucks and fullsize cars like his crown vic used mechanical fans...because they need to...

yeah right...150 hp needs a mechanical fan....sure....so i mentioned in the 80s it didnt matter anyway...then he said his car was a 2007 vic... so i asked him if he bought a cop car....and he said no...so i asked him if he had ever even looked at his fan....


and when he figured out his fan was electric....it was quite comical.


its funny most people dont realize since 09 or 10 so.......all of the fords are electrically cooled....the big 250 and 350 ones are high dollar electro mechanical...the half tons are just e fans.....

at the point the ecoboost was introduced...the most powerful line of pickups ever offered in the history of the world ...every one of those trucks were all electrically cooled....most powerful ever...

and the lowest power wormy ass rangers by comparison....had clutch fans still.... that is hysterical...and there were guys still saying e fans couldnt cool your v8 swap as good as a mechanical fan....so...really...maybe they had a point.


yeah....that happened.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I used electric fans on my stock '68 429 that I swapped into a '68 Torino when I was 19. That was in 1981. I still have the fans for some reason, tho the Torino burnt up in a garage fire. I'll take a pic of the fans if i remember. I don't remember what they came out of...
The reason for electric fans was there wasn't enough room for a mechanical fan.
I had a lot of fun with that car.ni was doing about 105mph at the end of the 1/4 on the street. Probably about 13.5 seconds. Was pretty good for a total of $300 total investment. (1980 dollars)

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

at the point the ecoboost was introduced...the most powerful line of pickups ever offered in the history of the world ...every one of those trucks were all electrically cooled....most powerful ever...

and the lowest power wormy ass rangers by comparison....had clutch fans still.... that is hysterical...and there were guys still saying e fans couldnt cool your v8 swap as good as a mechanical fan....so...really...maybe they had a point.

Same engine, bigger brick, much less payload/towing... our 2.3 Bronco has an efan...

 

[RustRatz]

well....you have never owned an x3 then. electric waterpumps commercially been on beamers since 06 or so...


like timing belts....you need to change them early if your smart. for those...50-60 k intervals on the pumps








ya know......when ya know.....you know.

ya know?




to be fair...electric pumps are more for cooling efficiency at high speed of the whole engine for 40-80 hp cold engine gain...when drag racing...and not for actual recovery of 5 to 10 parasitic horsepower....but that helps too. in this case its true compounding efficiency.


i have to admit i am shocked this discussion can actually be a thing in 2023....you have google.. of course i cant find the data and white papers i was hoping to...so yeah...fuk gogglez.


i know some guys that worked on this project...

https://wasteadvantagemag.com/advertising/




i work with compressor station geeks too....i will never be that smart.



it is comedy though sometimes....there was even times early on like late 90,s to 2012 or so guys were regularly telling us an electric fan could never reliably cool a 400 hp 302....how the fawk can that happen? how can someone believe that...

i had been running a 300 hp v8 in a ranger for over 3/4 million miles at that point...and had helped build a few swaps over 600 hp... and just wondered if they had actually left their yards growing up.

one particularly funny guy said it was onll because of front wheel drive that cars used electric fans, and trucks and fullsize cars like his crown vic used mechanical fans...because they need to...

yeah right...150 hp needs a mechanical fan....sure....so i mentioned in the 80s it didnt matter anyway...then he said his car was a 2007 vic... so i asked him if he bought a cop car....and he said no...so i asked him if he had ever even looked at his fan....


and when he figured out his fan was electric....it was quite comical.


its funny most people dont realize since 09 or 10 so.......all of the fords are electrically cooled....the big 250 and 350 ones are high dollar electro mechanical...the half tons are just e fans.....

at the point the ecoboost was introduced...the most powerful line of pickups ever offered in the history of the world ...every one of those trucks were all electrically cooled....most powerful ever...

and the lowest power wormy ass rangers by comparison....had clutch fans still.... that is hysterical...and there were guys still saying e fans couldnt cool your v8 swap as good as a mechanical fan....so...really...maybe they had a point.


yeah....that happened.

Never worked on a bmw lol, all my friends own $500 shitboxes

 

[superj]

i can't remember ever seeing an electric water pump in person, either. i wonder what is on the wife's 2018 mazda3 or my 2017 nissan titan? if they have them, i looked at the engines but never looked close enough to notice the pumps