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O No 3.0!

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Orca I can't find the tid values. Idk if my obd won't do it or what, I remember seeing them, but can't remember how I got to them. I'll figure it out though. I can pull them with the torque app, but I have no clue on how to read them. I did check the TPS today while it was warming up and did a fuel pressure test again cause I pulled a damper from the junkyard. The TPS read 8% at idle and popped the throttle to 3k it read 49%, so it's good. The fuel pressure was 60psi koeo and dropped to 58psi after 5 min. Psi at koer was a steady 65psi and never changed when engine was revved. All the DTC were the same as before. As far as how the truck runs..... like a washer on spin cycle with 3 pairs of shoes in it.....I was hard for me to keep driving it just to do these tests. I had my daughter with me and when we go back to the house, she instantly said it smells like rotten eggs (I ain't been able to smell shit for a yr now because of C-19) I also will say there was a lot of pinging and popping coming from the exhaust. I only drove this thing for 30 mins. I could also hear a pop almost like a backfire every so often that was not coming from the engine bay. It sounded like it was below the passenger seat. I'm confident my plugs are fouled now but I didn't pull them when I got back home cause work was calling.
What you are describing with the smell & the backfiring sounds like the catalytic converter is stopped up. It could have been this way for awhile or it could have been damaged by the bad/wrong injectors. I would unbolt the exhaust at the flange & see if it runs better.
 


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Orca

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+1 to what RonD said, with a curious (but common) exception...
So TPS should never be 0% or 100%, if it was there would be no way to tell if there was a problem with the sensor. Any sensor has to have a "range" that can be exceeded at either end, low or high, or there would be no way to tell if sensor is having a problem.
Completely agree, but the real world isn't always that rosy, unfortunately...

GM "P04" PCMs do report TPS = 0% at idle (EDIT #1: both with engine on and off), using the SAE-standardized PID ($11, "Absolute Throttle Position"), in fact! (I don't know what they report at WOT. I will probably test that at my next opportunity.) So, either their sensors are truly reporting close to 0 volts at closed throttle or GM is not following the SAE standards for PID $11. I took a look at the list of supported DTCs for one of the P04-PCM vehicles that I sometimes test and it does support all of these throttle-related DTCs (the latter 2 of which are not SAE-standardized):
  1. P0121 ('Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit Range/Performance Problem')
  2. P0122 ('Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit Low Input')
  3. P0123 ('Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit High Input')
  4. P1121 ('GM: Throttle Position Sensor Circuit Intermittent High Voltage')
  5. P1122 ('GM: Throttle Position Sensor Circuit Intermittent Low Voltage')
This makes me think that GM is probably just not following the SAE standard for that OBD2 PID. (They do this in so many places and in so many ways, unfortunately, that it would not surprise me here too.)

There is an SAE-standard TPS PID (PID $45, "TP_R") which reports so-called "Relative Throttle Position" and, as such, will range from 0% (EDIT #2) at idle to substantially less than 100% at WOT, by design. I've not yet encountered a vehicle that supports that PID, though. Unsurprisingly, all vehicles I've encountered support PID $11 ("Absolute Throttle Position"), however.
TPS(throttle sensor) is a 5volt sensor, 0v to 5v, on most vehicles, not just Fords. OBD2 usually show a % and not voltage.
I agree. Fortunately, most vehicles I've encountered report the TPS sensor voltage as a manufacturer-specific PID. FORScan knows the PID, fortunately, and makes it available under the name "[PCM.]TP_V".
 
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Orca

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@Orca What is TPS in FORScan? I have these:

TPMODE - Throttle Position
TP RATE - Throttle Position Rate
TP_V - Throttle position sensor voltage
TP_F - Throttle position sensor status
TPCT - Lowest Closed Throttle Voltage
Somewhat contrary to what I suggested earlier about not using FORScan PIDs with "OBDII" in the name, I would use PID "OBDII.TP". That's almost certainly the SAE-standard PID $11 ("TP" is the official SAE name for the PID, not "TPS"). You could also use "TP_V", which should be the sensor voltage and will hover around 1.0 volts at the "idle" pedal position. The "TPMODE" PID has only 3 states (WOT, partial throttle, and closed throttle), so it's pretty useless. I think "TP_F" is a "fault" indicator. I'm not intimately familiar with "TP_RATE" or "TPCT".
I am not able to get FORScan to show which cylinder misfired. Any idea?
You should use FORScan to access the "Mode $06" (they might call it "Mode 6") data, probably under "Tests". Try looking under the "Tests" section in the "FORScan Lite for Android: User interface manual".

Let me know if you can't find it and I'll try something extra on my end to help. Also, please read this post of mine in Shadowridr1's earlier thread.

There's also a link to an excellent (PDF) document there, but for his 2003. For your 2002, the link is:

https://www.fordtechservice.dealerconnection.com/vdirs/diagnostics/pdf/obdsm208.pdf

Hope that helps!
 

Orca

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I can't get it to show misfire cyl specific either.
That's probably because you're still suffering from the P1000 DTC, but I might be wrong. That's why I recommend "a couple of those '60-to-40-mph, no-throttle, no-brake decelerations' at some point".
 

Eddo Rogue

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I feel like its a potato in tailpipe, aka clogged cat. Or a rag got sucked in the intake.
 

mc17eln

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@Shadowridr1 Watch this video for ODBC-II Mode 6 to find out which cylinder misfired.

Here are my mode-6 test results:

a) Cyliner 1 to 5 have exactly the same 0.16% misfire rate, while 6 runs perfectly.
b) FORScan cannot name TID 26 to 28, 2A to 2D, but they seem irrelevant.

I have 2 reconditioned cylinder heads with new exhaust valve seats. It starts up with one crank in less than 1 or 2 seconds every time. The small vibration during idle never goes away, cold or hot. I plan to do the follow first:

0) Complete the drive cycles to clear P1000 (made 4 attempts today but still couldn't clear EVAP).
1) Compression test, which I have not done after the rebuild.
2) Recheck TDC and camshaft synchronizer.
3) I should start a new thread instead of hijacking this one.

68739
 
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Orca

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Here are my mode-6 test results:

a) Cyliner 1 to 5 have exactly the same 0.16% misfire rate, while 6 runs perfectly.
b) FORScan cannot name TID 26 to 28, 2A to 2D, but they seem irrelevant.
@mc17eln, @Shadowridr1: FYI, those Mode $06 tests that FORScan reports as "Unknown test" can be identified with those PDF files I mentioned for both of you. For example, @mc17eln, your TID $26 CID $00 test is covered on page 15. It's the "Phase 0 Initial tank vacuum and maximum/minimum limits" test (part of the EVAP testing). Those documents contain a wealth of info.

For reference, I have a recurring but very low-rate Cylinder #5 misfire on my 2004 Ranger. It shows a misfire rate of a mere 0.1635% (i.e. less than 1%, same as you) but my "limit" value is lower -- 16.9%.

@mc17eln, I wonder if your vibration might be due the idle parameters having not been fully learned by the PCM yet? Or maybe it's something else entirely? I'm confident you'll get to the bottom of it though, so it should be interesting.

BTW, for EVAP vehicle-monitor / drive-cycle testing, it's usually said that your fuel tank should be between 1/4 to 3/4 full. But, FWIW, I just checked the "Ford drive cycle" instructions and it says: "Fuel tank level should be between 1/2 and 3/4 fill with 3/4 fill being the most desirable."

Also, feel free to ignore the "failure" in the TID $56 CID $00 test ("Cylinder Events Tested"). Ford has perversely set that one up in a way that it will report a "fail" even in normal operation. My truck routinely reports a failure there once the engine has been running for a while.
 

mc17eln

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@Orca Thanks for the tip about the missing test names. I also found them in the PCED manual, section 2, "Diagnostic Monitoring Test Results". They're about EVAP phase 2 and 4. Getting 0.00 for all seems to suggest my PCM simply ignored those tests.

I finally got the EVAP readiness to yes. I followed the "Drive Cycles" in PCED manual to the letter (except I didn't clear DTC in step 1), and "EVAP Evaluated" turned "Yes" in just 470 seconds from startup. However, those 0.16% at cylinder 1 to 5 are still there after a 30 minute drive, so is the small vibration at idle.
 

Shadowridr1

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Ok, so I am feeling very mixed emotions right now.......I found the issue.....I was going back through EVERYTHING this morning...I started with volts and ohms. All was good. Checked the spark at the coil, good spark on 1-3 not so good on 4-6. I got to looking and I had 5 and 6 crossed 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️...I swapped them and low and behold, no misfire, fuel trims straightened up, O2's working right, no more excessive smoke or liquid from the exhaust pipe...I feel really stupid cause I have not looked at them since I changed plugs right before the first good run. I guess that with new plugs and injectors it's was clean enough to run good for those 30 mins then, started messing up the timing. 🤷‍♂️. I really don't know AND I don't know why I didn't look at them again. 😕
Anyway here is a TID profile
And a couple of other videos........... I do have a ping/knock still at 3k rpm coming from front passenger side of the motor. Idk what it is......
 

Shadowridr1

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I also still have these DTC's. I'm going to change out the ABS sensor. It seems to be mentioned often when searching both the vss and wheel speed sensor issue.
68764
 

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Good work (y)

Been working with coil packs for quite a few years now and I still reverse plug wires, and would bet money they were right, lol

But same could be said on my distributor wires :), may be I am just spark plug wire dyslexic
 

Shadowridr1

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Good work (y)

Been working with coil packs for quite a years now and I still reverse plug wires, and would bet money they were right, lol

But same could be said on my distributor wires :), may be I am just spark plug wire dyslexic
I'm certain I am. I can't count the times I looked them over but never really looked them over. Anyway I'm going to let the truck sit for 30 mins and cool down then I'm going to start it up and hope it doesn't do like it did last time...
 

mc17eln

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@Shadowridr1 Congrats. I suggest finishing the drive cycles to clear the P1000. It seems to have made a small difference for me. Now I have the following from mode-6 tests after a 40+ mile drive with 2 stops:

Misfire Rate (Type A Threshold is <= 28.80 %):
Cylinder 1: 0.33%​
Cylinder 2: 0.16%​
Cylinder 3: 0.33%​
Cylinder 4: 0.00%​
Cylinder 5: 0.00%​
Cylinder 6: 0.00%​

so I have 1 bank running perfectly now.
 

Orca

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@Shadowridr1 Very glad to hear that you found and fixed that problem! Your videos show a much better overall situation. Even the fuel injector pulse widths seem to be more normal at idle now.

Hopefully now you can start dealing with the less-critical issues. For example, I see from your Mode $06 video that all 3 of the O2 sensors still show no current. (We discussed that in your original thread.) I really think that you need to go back and re-check fuse #41 in the under-hood box! I'd pull it out and check the fuse's resistance with a meter then check the slot for corrosion (etc). I simply cannot see a different reason for all 3 of your otherwise-working-fine O2 sensors to be failing the heater current test.

As for the rear axle ("wheel") speed sensor (WSS), I think you may be forgetting about this post.

In other words, the reported "VSS" values are probably coming from the "OSS" (transmission, Output Shaft Speed) sensor, not from the rear axle speed sensor. If so, I don't suspect that DTC P0500 will be cured by changing that rear axle sensor.
 
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Shadowridr1

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@Shadowridr1 Very glad to hear that you found and fixed that problem! Your videos show a much better overall situation. Even the fuel injector pulse widths seem to be more normal at idle now.

Hopefully now you can start dealing with the less-critical issues. For example, I see from your Mode $06 video that all 3 of the O2 sensors still show no current. (We discussed that in your original thread.) I really think that you need to go back and re-check fuse #41 in the under-hood box! I'd pull it out and check the fuse's resistance with a meter then check the slot for corrosion (etc). I simply cannot see a different reason for all 3 of your otherwise-working-fine O2 sensors to be failing the heater current test.

As for the rear axle ("wheel") speed sensor (WSS), I think you may be forgetting about this post.

In other words, the reported "VSS" values are probably coming from the "OSS" (transmission, Output Shaft Speed) sensor, not from the rear axle speed sensor. If so, I don't suspect that DTC P0500 will be cured by changing that rear axle sensor.
I ohmed the abs sensor and it's 1.905. My meter is auto setting so that was K-ohms. I think that is within spec. I set the forscan to ABS speed sensors the front 2 were reading the same as the dash, but the rear was reading almost 5mph slower than the other 2. I put a test light on the 41 fuse and it's good. I pulled it and ohm tested it as well. Same results....I replaced the OSS sensor and still had the ABS code. So I went back in got the ABS sensor and all good
68784
 

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