Fuel system differences

[JoshT]

sidenote; I said "starting with the tank"... to be honest I THOUGHT based on forum advice on FTE that I could "get away" with just cleaning the tank really well and putting in 2 fuel filters, a cheap disposable replace 5 times in the first 1000 miles and then a 2nd marine grade fuel filter (sediment bowl and water drain spigot the works.... well reality is even after pulling the tank 3 times, cleaning it twice and then cleaning and "bomb" coating the inside (a paint bomb that is supposed to enamel coat the entire inside), I realized I was never gonna get the orange goo (rust) to stop and gave up and "fixed it right" (replacing everything).... I kept the marine quality fuel filter that thing was spendy as hell.

Did you mean to respond to something else, or am I missing a whole side of this discussion?

 

[Brain75]

I suffered this conversion once involuntarily, my 1948 had a steel tank (inside the cab, behind the seat). E10 and E15 caused it to puke orange goo all the time - . I replaced the entire fuel system starting with a fullsize bronco (plastic) gas tank and then every single bit from there forward to the carb, new pump, new sending unit, new filter, new lines.

My point was ethanol eats everything it touches, it is corrosive crap.

 

[moalaska]

So what didn't you understand about my last replies?

Where fueling (to include flex fuel) is concerned. If all you are using is the long block, it won't matter if it came from a 03-04 Ranger, a 2005-10 Ranger, an Explorer, or a Mustang. Flex fuel is not part of the long block and does not alter the long block.

As noted there may be a difference in balance shaft. There were also improvements to internals, particularly the timing chain components, with later being better. Those are not differences that will prevent the long blocks from interchanging. Camshafts may be different between the car and the ranger/explorer engines to give a different power curve, but I haven'e seen proof of that and it is within the computer's ability to self tune for. They can be swapped between the engines if need be.

There may be external components that need to be swapped to use the engine in place of yours, but those parts can be swapped from your engine and are not part of the long block.

I already know all this and I stated it. Why are you wasting my time?

 

[moalaska]

Context Brain, context. Not yerlling at you, just saying to take notice of the context. In the context of 4.0L SOHC Rangers, there were no flex fuel Rangers. The 3.0L really does not matter in that context and mentioning it adds confusion.

"a difference for the 4.0 sohc in fuel systems between 2003 and 2009? " May have been, but if you are swapping the long block, they are irrelevant. Remove the components from the existing long block and install on your new long block. Again, going into more detail adds confusion.

"Looking on doing an engine swap and just trying to find out if that's something I need to look out for. " Swap is a poor choice of words in this context. Swapoften conjures the notion of installiong a non-original engine. Something like installing a 3.0L, 5.0L, or LS in place of his factory 4.0L SOHC. This is a replacement, he's removing one 4.0L SOHC and installing another 4.0L SOHC. That is, unless he left out an important piece of info like his truck has a 2.3L or 3.0L.

He is not trying to install flex fuel. He's asking if there are any concerns with installing an engine from a flex fuel equipped vehicle into his non flex fuel truck. He won't be swapping ECUs or any of that stuff.

Changing ECU to one that includes Flex Fuel would open up a lot of issues, well beyond just the fuel system. Without going into depth, that would involve almost every computer on the truck due to the way they communicate with each other. Since that is not the plan and does not affect the engine itself, it's best to avoid those issues and avoid adding confusion.

The extent of the fuel system on the engine is fuel rail and injectors. He has a 2003, and according to RockAuto parts listing those injectors were used from 2001-2003. The listings show 2004 fuel injectors were 1 year only, and 2005-2010 being the same between all 4.0Ls. Main reason for the fuel rail to have changed was if the intake changed or fuel system style changed (return vs returnless) and I doubt the latter happened.

Considering that he is changing out the engine, it is only a few extra bolts to get at the fuel rail and injectors. Remove the 8 bolts holding the upper intake to the lower and the fuel rails are right there. If you need more room, the lower intake is another 12 bolts holding it to the heads. All of those connections use o-ring seals, so easy cleanup and prep for reinstallation. If I were pulling the entire engine, I'd be removing the upper intake anyway as part of the process just to get it out of the way and prevent damage.

No matter how he slices it, he will want to install his injectors and sensors onto the replacement long block to ensure compatibility. Engine accessories and mounts are going to come off anyway for removal and installation. There's a decent chance that the oil pan and exhaust manifolds will need to be moved over unless it's from another Ranger. I don't know about the upper intake, but they may have changed over the years and models as well.

In other words, just use the long block and maybe lower intake of they are the same. Move all of your existing stuff to the new longblock. You're going to be stripping the engine down that far for the change anyway.

Exactly. If the components are newer and compatible I would rather keep them if it's a whole engine assembly with everything installed I can just swap the whole thing in. If there are uncompatible parts then of course I need to swap this before I install the engine. And on top of that I have a supercharger kit that I'm going to put on the engine and that's going to add more complexity if it's different injectors and different fuel delivery system. I'm not a dummy when it comes to super charging and engines but I was reaching out to the forum and I don't need a bunch of bashing each other people just some straight up answers if somebody has some straight up answers. And the fuel injector and the fuel system question is one of those that I've searched for and it's been a little bit of a mystery. Thank you

 

[moalaska]

Exactly. If the components are newer and compatible I would rather keep them if it's a whole engine assembly with everything installed I can just swap the whole thing in. If there are uncompatible parts then of course I need to swap this before I install the engine. And on top of that I have a supercharger kit that I'm going to put on the engine and that's going to add more complexity if it's different injectors and different fuel delivery system. I'm not a dummy when it comes to super charging and engines but I was reaching out to the forum and I don't need a bunch of bashing each other people just some straight up answers if somebody has some straight up answers. And the fuel injector and the fuel system question is one of those that I've searched for and it's been a little bit of a mystery. Thank you

I already know the long blocks are the same except for the balance shaft and maybe the camshafts for the mustang. I don't care about that. I know the intake manifold are different across all three platforms. I was simply asking a question about the fueling and the injectors and maybe the fuel pressure regulator and other sensors pertaining to the fuel system. We don't need armchair politics or unnecessary information. Don't respond with unnecessary information please. Thank you

 

[2011Supercab]

Several different injectors were used across the 4.0 SOHC, what the differences are I don't know
Could be different fuel pressures or electrical connection.

XL2Z-3AA
Explorer 99-01
Sport Trac 01

4L2E-G5A
Explorer 02-03
Sport Trac 02-03
Ranger 01-03 before 12/01/03

4L5E-B5A
Ranger 03-04 From 12/01/03

5L2E-D1A
Explorer 05-06

5L2Z-3CA
5L2Z-3CB
Explorer 06-10
Mustang 05-10
Sport Trac 07-10
Ranger 05-10


Best thing to do would be keep your current intake manifold and everything attached to it

 

[moalaska]

Several different injectors were used across the 4.0 SOHC, what the differences are I don't know
Could be different fuel pressures or electrical connection.

XL2Z-3AA
Explorer 99-01
Sport Trac 01

4L2E-G5A
Explorer 02-03
Sport Trac 02-03
Ranger 01-03 before 12/01/03

4L5E-B5A
Ranger 03-04 From 12/01/03

5L2E-D1A
Explore 05-06

5L2Z-3CA
5L2Z-3CB
Explorer 06-10
Mustang 05-10
Sport Trac 07-10
Ranger 05-10


Best thing to do would be keep your current intake manifold and everything attached to it

I'm just confused as how this information about this specific topic is so obscure. That's why I started this thread. I couldn't find any specific information on the forums.

 

[JoshT]

I already know all this and I stated it. Why are you wasting my time?

If you already know all of that, then you are the one wasting our time.

I was simply asking a question about the fueling and the injectors and maybe the fuel pressure regulator and other sensors pertaining to the fuel system. We don't need armchair politics or unnecessary information. Don't respond with unnecessary information please. Thank you

And a simple answer is what I tried to give. Simple answer is fueling differences don't matter, use the stuff from your existing engine. Same answer I've been giving the whole time, same answer that 2011Supercab gave.

Fuel injectors are different. It takes about an extra 4 bolts to remove and swap the fuel rail during the engine change. Attached to the rail is a pressure regulator and a pulse damper. Fuel pressure regulator and all other sensors pertinent to the fuel system are off the engine.

"Stop responding with unnecessary information" is exactly the point I was trying to make to Brain.

I'm just confused as how this information about this specific topic is so obscure. That's why I started this thread. I couldn't find any specific information on the forums.

It isn't obscure, it is unnecessary. That is why you don't find it. That the long block is the same is the only bit that matters.

If one is installing a replacement long block into their vehicle it is a trivial matter to move all of their existing stuff over to the new long block.

If someone is swapping an SOHC into a vehicle that never came with it, they will be taking everything from the donor, not mixing and matching.

 

[Brain75]

oooh kay, deeep breath everyone... I didn't feel that greatly injured. I am too old and too used to real life to get butt hurt by a few words on a forum. I just tend to bark back rather than get drown out.
For anyone else who feels like they are in an argument, relax - we are only posting for 2 reasons. To answer the OP's questions, and to build a bigger knowledge base for the whole community, not to get in a pissing match.

The OP stated clearly he was looking for a donor, and he didn't explicitly say he was vetoing non-rangers (i.e. explorers, etc - anything else with an identical 4.0... heck he might even be looking at mustangs).


Now most importantly. Does the OP have any additional questions we can answer?

 

[JoshT]

To be quite frank, I did not and do not care how you feel, that's your problem. Barking back...

You were/are barking for the sake of hearing yourself bark. Next time, take the time to figure out what it is that you are barking about and if you should even bark at all.

The most applicable info you've provided was bit about the Explorer being offered as 4.0L FFV and having larger injectors. It was accurate, but also pointless considering that the base engine is the same. Then you went and followed it up with this:

You could grab a FFV engine and then run it totally normal never feeding it E85 and it will purr just like a regular, your oversized injectors will just be working less hard.

Which gives absolutely the wrong message. Assuming that the injectors are larger (appropriate assumption for ethanol), he can't just drop in a FFV engine and have it purr like regular. Injector data is stored in the ECU, the tuning has to match the installed injectors. Without having the ECU reprogrammed to match, those injectors won't be working less, they'll be working the same and dumping excess fuel into the engine.

The OP stated clearly he was looking for a donor, and he didn't explicitly say he was vetoing non-rangers (i.e. explorers, etc - anything else with an identical 4.0... heck he might even be looking at mustangs).

I'll say it again, it does not matter what his donor is. If the engine is a Ford 4.0L SOHC the same thing applies. Use the long block, put your parts on it.

OP's idea of "if I could just drop the engine without messing around with swapping parts around" is just nonsense from the start. In the process of removing and installing the engine one would be removing at least 90% of what makes the engines different anyway. It is a few extra bolts to remove and change over the remaining parts and do it right. The engines will be out of the vehicles which makes all of those parts VERY easy to access, so no valid excuse for not doing it.

For his sake, I hope that all of his questiona have already been answered. If not, can you please can refrain from telling him about "the price of rice in China" as a response. You're old enough that you should understand that phrase.

 

[Uncle Gump]

You fellas just need to take break...