Fuel starved '88 B2?

[gstuartw]

Maybe someone here can offer advice and where to proceed. I apologize, this is a long read but I figure any details I can provide up front might reduce a back and forth of questions.


Here is the history of this issue.


Before driving this vehicle on a 400 mile trip I noticed a small amount of gasoline on the ground. I took it to a mechanic (Mechanic A) and he discovered the gas tank was rusting at the top of the tank where the fuel pump is located. He replaced the tank and reported that the pump was in good shape.


There were no issues on the drive.


The Bronco was parked inside for a couple of weeks and the next time I drove it was on a sunny day that reached about 87 degrees. I drove to to a shopping center and it sat out in the sun for 3 hours while my wife and I shopped and ate lunch. We got back in the car and drove for about 3 miles at speeds of 45-50 mph and suddenly the Bronco started to hesitate and buck until it died.


I pulled over and tried to restart it and it acted as if it was out of gas. The gauge showed Full and I’m confident that it was accurate as I had filled the tank before I parked it. I called a nearby mechanic (Mechanic B) and he sent one of his guys and he showed up quickly and he popped the hood and took a look. We noticed that there was an amount of some fluid sprayed in the front, driver side of the engine compartment. There was some of it puddled in the cap of the power steering fluid fill.


The mechanic didn’t address this but continued to try and diagnose the fuel issue. He took the cap off the Schrader valve on the fuel rail and released pressure and opened the cap on the fuel filler neck. He then crawled under the car and banged on what I assume was the tank and the frame mounted fuel pump. When the vehicle still would not start he concluded that the tank was empty and that the fuel gauge or sending unit was bad. As second mechanic showed up with a couple gallons of gas and when that was added the Bronco started. I noticed that before he turned the key to the start position he turned it to the on position, presumably to engage the fuel pump.


I drove the vehicle 2 miles to a gas station to fill it up, I could only get about a gallon and a half in. I started it up and it died on me, in the same fashion as earlier, as soon as I drove out of the station. I coasted to a safe parking spot and let it sit for about an hour. Then like the mechanic had done earlier I opened the gas cap, and released the pressure via the Schrader. I was able to start the vehicle and drive it to a mechanic (Mechanic C) close by who was just closing but agreed to take it into their lot and look at it the next morning.


I arrived the next morning when they opened and it started right up. Because prior to this issue I had intended on having Mechanic B do some AC work I decided to drive the Bronco to their shop rather than keep it at the shop (Mechanic C) it spent the night at. (Mechanic C does not work on AC by the way).


I had to leave town for a couple of weeks and while I was gone I stayed in touch with the owner of the garage and he reported it had some issues that I’m sure have nothing to do with my original issue. He assured me they were looking into the fuel issue but I allowed them to replace a dying battery as well as what was reported as a soon to fail starter. He let me know when it was done and even delivered it to me on a Saturday. I immediately took it on a quick drive around town which lasted about 25 minutes in sunny and 82 degree temps in stop and start driving. I put it in the garage for the rest of the day.


The next day I drove the Bronco around town on two different trips with stop and start city drivng in similar weather conditions, sunny and mid 80’s. Prior to that I contacted Mechanic B to ask just what they did related to the fuel issue. He reported they checked the components, and found some debris in the system. He said that while they had the vehicle they took it on a couple of test drives trying to replicate the bread-down in both city and highway drivng.


My wife and I met friends at a restaurant at the end of the second trip of the day and after the Bronco sat for about 20 minutes I tried to start it and it died. (We had issues with our reservations and lost our table so we decided to go to another restaurant.) We left the vehicle in the lot and went to lunch. Prior to leaving I tried the process of reducing pressure via the Schrader valve etc, and it would not start. A couple of hours later we returned from lunch and it started.


I should mention that the second time it died I again noticed fluid had been sprayed in the drivers side of the engine compartment, just like the first break down. I noticed that the cap to the power steering fill was crooked as if it was not screwed on straight and there was a gap between the lid and the fill neck on one side. (I corrected this).


I’m wondering if because of this fluid being sprayed or sloshed around has the issue been electric and there is some sort of short going on? After is sits long enough and the fluid can evaporate or flow off the surfaces it is no longer acting as a conduit? What I don’t understand is, if this is the case what short would not blow a fuse of damage a component thus making starting it impossible without replacing the fuse or part?


Thanks for hanging in there and getting to this point, I appreciate your patience and any advice you can offer.

Stuart

 

[RonD]

Only thing that would stay on drivers side that way is power steering fluid or maybe coolant

Wouldn't be gasoline, the fuel lines are too far back, and WOULD BE SPRAYING with engine running and you WOULD SMELL that in the cab, bit time above 70deg

What you describe is classic TFI module heat issue, which is very common

Get a can of Quick Start(ether)
Do 50/50 test to decide once and for all if its a fuel or spark issue

50/50 test, been around since the 1890's and the first gasoline/alcohol engines, lol, time tested
When there is a crank but No start
Spray some ether into the intake, you can use power brake booster hose, PCV Valve hose, Breather hose on the Air tube from filter to intake
Spray in a bit, couple of good squirts
Try to start
If it starts, runs and dies, its a fuel delivery issue, spark is OK
If it doesn't start its a spark issue, TFI most likely
50/50 instant results on where to go next

 

[gstuartw]

Thanks Ron. While the B2 was with Mechanic C he did spray Quick Start into the intake and it started up and ran until it burned that off. (I knew I missed something in my initial post!)

 

[RonD]

That was a GOOD Mechanic, remember him

There is a Fuel Pressure Regulator(FPR) on the engine, has the Return Fuel line connected and a vacuum line
Check that vacuum line for fuel, shouldn't be any of course
But would expect very poor MPG and grey smoke from exhaust
The extra fuel can flood out an engine for restart, but will evaporate after a bit, so can then re-start


Fuel pump relay, in engine bay, green base, replace it on speculation
Try to see under side of base and look at relay pins for corrosion

On a pre-1995 Ranger or B2 there is an OBD1 plug in in the engine bay, may have a cap on it that has "EEC"
Looks like this: https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/images/eec-iv_testing2.gif

In that drawing the Fuel Pump slot is labelled
That slot is the GROUND for the fuel pump relay, not the fuel pump, just the relay
Normally the computer ground the fuel pump relay with key on, but just for 2 seconds, then it will not ground it again until RPMs are above 400, cranking speed is 200rpm

If you put a Jumper wire in that slot and then to a Ground, or battery Negative, the fuel pump will come on with key on and stay on until key off
Two reasons for doing this
First, is to HEAR what the pump sounds like while you are sitting in the cab Key On engine off
So at the next No Start, you can cycle the key on and off while you LISTEN for the pump to run for the 2 seconds

Second is to do the jumper when there is a No Start to see if it starts
You can leave the jumper in place 24/7 doesn't hurt anything, but wouldn't find the problem, lol

If can be computer issue, shutting off the pump, not grounding the relay, or wire to relay, it passes thru the slot on the OBD1 plug
Or just failing fuel pump relay

 

[Northidahotrailblazer]

You have a lot of patience than me. Like RonD said TFI module could be an issue or fuel pumps..... Fuel pump will do the same thing, get hot and quit working and let cool and it will work. I would never take my stuff to a shop but if a shop replaced the tank and didn't replace the pump I would not be happy..... These fords have known fuel pump issues from 80s to 90s. I hate to throw parts at things but not changing out the pump when the tank was out was just dumb and I don't know how first mechanic could of said the pump was in good shape. Unless you or him know when it was changed last who knows how old it is. A 88 has two fuel pumps, low pressure in the tank and a high pressure on the frame rail under the cab. I might sound a little grumpy in this message but I wouldn't of paid any of these guys anything. If they are spraying starting fluid in the intake and started and was running. I don't have a clue why they didn't tell you that you should replace the fuel pumps.... Need to check fuel pressure and see what its doing, it might be below spec right now even though its running.

 

[Northidahotrailblazer]

PS it looks like your power steering cap isn't on all the way, maybe your issue to why your getting fluid on that side.

 

[gstuartw]

That was a GOOD Mechanic, remember him

There is a Fuel Pressure Regulator(FPR) on the engine, has the Return Fuel line connected and a vacuum line
Check that vacuum line for fuel, shouldn't be any of course
But would expect very poor MPG and grey smoke from exhaust
The extra fuel can flood out an engine for restart, but will evaporate after a bit, so can then re-start


Fuel pump relay, in engine bay, green base, replace it on speculation
Try to see under side of base and look at relay pins for corrosion

On a pre-1995 Ranger or B2 there is an OBD1 plug in in the engine bay, may have a cap on it that has "EEC"
Looks like this: https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/images/eec-iv_testing2.gif

In that drawing the Fuel Pump slot is labelled
That slot is the GROUND for the fuel pump relay, not the fuel pump, just the relay
Normally the computer ground the fuel pump relay with key on, but just for 2 seconds, then it will not ground it again until RPMs are above 400, cranking speed is 200rpm

If you put a Jumper wire in that slot and then to a Ground, or battery Negative, the fuel pump will come on with key on and stay on until key off
Two reasons for doing this
First, is to HEAR what the pump sounds like while you are sitting in the cab Key On engine off
So at the next No Start, you can cycle the key on and off while you LISTEN for the pump to run for the 2 seconds

Second is to do the jumper when there is a No Start to see if it starts
You can leave the jumper in place 24/7 doesn't hurt anything, but wouldn't find the problem, lol

If can be computer issue, shutting off the pump, not grounding the relay, or wire to relay, it passes thru the slot on the OBD1 plug
Or just failing fuel pump relay

Damn Ron, thanks for such a comprehensive set of instructions.

 

[gstuartw]

You have a lot of patience than me. Like RonD said TFI module could be an issue or fuel pumps..... Fuel pump will do the same thing, get hot and quit working and let cool and it will work. I would never take my stuff to a shop but if a shop replaced the tank and didn't replace the pump I would not be happy..... These fords have known fuel pump issues from 80s to 90s. I hate to throw parts at things but not changing out the pump when the tank was out was just dumb and I don't know how first mechanic could of said the pump was in good shape. Unless you or him know when it was changed last who knows how old it is. A 88 has two fuel pumps, low pressure in the tank and a high pressure on the frame rail under the cab. I might sound a little grumpy in this message but I wouldn't of paid any of these guys anything. If they are spraying starting fluid in the intake and started and was running. I don't have a clue why they didn't tell you that you should replace the fuel pumps.... Need to check fuel pressure and see what its doing, it might be below spec right now even though its running.

NITB, you bring up a sore point, one that if I was more bashful I'd not admit but then my wife is always shaking her head at what I admit. I KNEW I should have not accepted that Mechanic A said it looked ok. I had a pump and sending unit in my Autozone online basket ready to bring to him. My thoughts were, as long as you have the tank dropped replace the sh*t that's inside. I was in a hurry to hit the road and made a bad decision not to insist. I recently moved out of my house into an apartment, my tools in storage so I'm at the mercy of someone else.

 

[gstuartw]

PS it looks like your power steering cap isn't on all the way, maybe your issue to why your getting fluid on that side.

NITB, yeah I noticed that in the most recent episode and corrected that, thanks.

 

[gstuartw]

Upate. The fluid that has been spewing around the engine compartment is definitely power steering fluid and just a coincidental event. It seems the ears on the cap of the reservoir are weak and are flexing under the pressure enough to dislodge the cap. I'll be replacing that right away.

I am investing the money in a TFI relocation kit to get the module to a cooler place in the engine compartment. That brings the question, "what would be wrong with relocating the TFI to the cabin under the dash?"

Stuart

 

[RonD]

TFI gets VERY HOT, you do not want it in the cab or anywhere near any living things, lol

Ford figured the distributor would be enough of a Heat Sink to dissipate residual heat generated by the "transistors" sparking the coil
They were not 100% wrong, but it was just not enough of a heat sink so TFI modules could fail prematurely

Ford started to remote mounted TFIs in late 1980's, 1991 with the Rangers in the 3.0l model because of the issues with distributor mounted TFIs

Fords stock Heat sink with TFI: https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/images/remote_tfi1.jpg

Heat sink modification to use distributor mounted TFI for remote mounting: https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/images/remote_tfi2.jpg

Be sure to use "heat sink grease" on the back of the TFI module so heat transfer is at its best

 

[JerryC]

I'm late to the party and hopefully you have it fixed by now.

If not, check the connections at the frame mounted fuel pump. Mine acted like a bad TFI but it was loose connectors at the fuel pump. It left me stranded a block from the dealer so I had it towed there. It sat at the dealer for three weeks and they couldn't figure it out because it was intermittent, they guessed it was a fuel pump issue and wanted $1000 to replace the pumps. I had it towed home and the tow truck driver started it and drove it off the truck. The first thing I checking was power and ground on the frame pump and the first wire I touched fell off. I'm not kidding, it was so loose it fell off. It was basically touching and bouncing around enough to stay running most of the time and then it would loose connection and stall. I can only guess that getting out and back in while trying to start it enough times it would make contact again and run for a bit.

The connector was just a push on type that slides over the stud on the pump that has an interference fit, I have no idea if that was factory or not, it looked that way. It got spread out over time (heat cycles maybe, then vibration?) .

 

[gstuartw]

UPDATE: The TFI relocation kit is on order and I expect it soon. I won't be able to get to it for weeks. I'll keep y'all up to date when I have news.

Stuart

 

[Awesom-O]

Another thing to check after the fuel pump relay is the inertia switch. On my 86 Bronco that I just got going after being parked for 13 years, we would get intermittent response from the frame mounted fuel pump. After removing the fuel filter and draining the nasty fuel, I dumped a fresh can of fuel into the thankfully near empty tank. We seen that relay had been taped shut by the PO at some point, assuming the starting issue was maybe why it was parked for so long? Obviously there was an issue in the past. Decided to check out the inertia switch and when we held down the reset button we would get some power to the pump again, although it sounded weak. The engine would start, but it was fuel starved and would not rev. I decided to disconnect the inertia switch and run a jumper in the plug to remove the inertia switch from the equation. The pump now buzzed with power, and the truck fired up beautifully and ran with full fuel pressure and full engine power. So our inertia switch was the culprit, and was only partially working when the button was pressed and not working at all otherwise. The plug to the inertia switch also took some heat at some point and looked a little melted/deformed. Hope this helps you or someone else.