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engine keeps cranking after it has started.


sauceman

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Hi guys, in need of some help. I started my ranger this morning, and when it fired up, the ignition continued cranking uncontrollably. I disconnected the battery and shut the truck off, and this seemed to stop it, but it happens intermittently
 


ericbphoto

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Sounds like the starter relay is sticking. Either that or the ignition switch. Next time it happens, you could try tapping on the relay with a non-conductive object like a piece if 2x4 wood. If that jars it loose and it stops, then that is the problem. A better way to troubleshoot would be to get a meter or test light and see if you have voltage on the small signal wire at the starter relay with the key not in the start position. If you do not have voltage, replace the relay. If you do have voltage, then the ignition switch is The problem.
 

sauceman

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Where are the starter relays usually located on ford rangers?
 

ericbphoto

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Usually on driver side inner fender. Might look sorta like this.

1E39EF67-EACC-4CB6-B091-C41ADD288B8C.jpeg
 

sauceman

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Thanks. I'll take a look at that.
 

RonD

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Its most likely the starter motor itself, the smaller round cylinder on it, its a relay/solenoid and when activated(by the fender relay) it pushes out the starter motor gear and then sends 12v to start motor, it can stick so starter stays running

But yes, for sure try tapping on fender relay
Also in the picture the green tag is on the wire from ignition switch, its a push on/pull off connector, try pulling it off and see if starter stops spinning, if so that would mean problem at the ignition switch

I would disconnect the coil or coil pack, so no spark/no start
Then try to start repeatedly until it "sticks"
Then do the tap and wire pull tests
If starter stays on then disconnect battery and replace starter motor
 
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fastpakr

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Ron - why is there both a fender relay and the integrated relay on the starter? I've never really understood that.
 

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Fender mount starter relays seem to have died out 20 years ago so I'm not sure they ever served a valid purpose... :dunno:
 

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Starter motors started off with a FOOT pedal you would push down, that would connect starter motor to battery AND slide the starter gear out to engage the ring gear(flywheel/flexplate)
Moving the starter gear in and out was the big deal to get electric start to work, the electric motor wasn't the big deal, you couldn't leave it engaged(even with no voltage) or it would not work very long, lol

Then a fellow named Vincent Hugo Bendix, invented, AND patented, the Bendix Drive, 1915-1917
It used the torque of the starter motor turning to push out the starter gear but when the ring gear started to turn faster(engine started), the starter gear would retract automatically, so solved the IN/OUT issue

But not everyone want to pay the license fee to use his patents
There were infringements, lol, as there always is on a good idea

But there still needed to be a HIGH AMP "Relay" to activate the starter motor, 60-100amp relay, even with Bendix Drive
The word "solenoid" was commonly used instead of the word relay "back in the day"
Which is why these fender mount relays were often called solenoids, i.e. starter solenoid

A Post on the fender mounted "relay" also became the 12volt power distribution point for the vehicle, or 6volt at the time, the generator was hooked up to it, and any fuses or fusible links or fuse boxes, because it was the Battery's positive post
So that post became an integral part of vehicle wiring, it was still used as a relay, but that one post was used for power distribution

Not everyone want to pay Bendix for his "drive" so they added an actual Solenoid on the starter, it was the bump on top of the starter motor, not a cylinder just a bump

A Solenoid is now defined as an electro-magnetic device that causes movement, so opens and closes a valve, or shifts the position of something, i.e. transmission solenoids, they slide valves in valve body into different positions

A Relay is an electro-magnetic device that opens or close an electrical circuit, i.e. wiper relay or starter relay :)

So car makers started to add a solenoid on the starter that would push out the starter gear on activation and then pull it back when deactivated, thus avoiding patent fees

After that you saw the Round cylinders on top of starter motors, this was a relay/solenoid combo unit
So ignition switch wire could be run directly to this type of starter by-passing the fender mounted relay completely, but.............
Car makers still had all model vehicles wiring setup to use of the fender mounted relays post as THE power distribution point

So these fender mounted relays were S L O W L Y phased out and were replaced by a "power post" or a larger positive battery cable directly to starter and a small cable directly to engine fuse box
Ignition switch START wire went directly to starter motor relay/solenoid(thru safety switches, lol)

And THEN....................car makers added a smaller starter relay inside the engine fuse box as a Theft prevention add-on
Disables key activation if "alarm" is activated, Ford used it for PATS
 
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Dirtman

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Now Ron's voice in my head has become Levar Burton...

tenor (31).gif
 

RonD

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Geordi La Forge from Star Trek................cool
 

fastpakr

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So I'm still unclear - is there any actual purpose/value in the redundant relay when one is integrated into the starter? E.g. can you just eliminate it?
 

RonD

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Yes, if your model starter motor has an "S" post then you can by-pass the fender mounted starter relay or jumper it

"S" post means START, and there will be a little "S" next to the smaller post on fender relay and starter motor relay, 12v at that post will activate the relay
(4 post fender mounted relays also had an "I" post, "I" for ignition, it supplied battery voltage to ignition coil(spark) when starter motor was active, both were smaller posts, so the S and I were used to designate which was which, and S just stuck around after I was gone, just FYI on where the "S" came from)

If you look at the picture ericbphoto posted, #4 post, of the fender mounted relay
There is the larger red cable from Battery positive connected to one larger post, and it has several other wires connected on same post, that's the 12v power distribution post

The other larger post has the smaller red wire, just by itself, that wire runs down to the "S" post on the starter motor's relay

The wire with the green mark is connected to the fender mounted relay's "S" post, that wire comes from the ignition switch and has 12v when key is turned to START

When key is turn to START the fender mounted relay closes and the smaller red wire gets 12v
Then the "S" post on starter motor gets 12v and starter motor activates


You can either extend the wire with green mark so it can reach the "S" post on starter motor, by-passing the fender mounted relay
Or you could splice the green mark wire and small red wire together, by-passing(jump) the fender mounted relay

Either way the fender mounted relay would no longer "click"/activate because its "S" post is open, so its no longer needed as a relay but the one post is still needed for power distribution
 
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fastpakr

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Right, I understand that for convenience's sake it was used as a power distribution point. Just wasn't clear if there was any reason for it actually being used as a relay. Thanks for clarifying.
 

Eddo Rogue

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did u try jangling the key switch? Maybe some lube, or electric friendly lube.
 

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