Educate me please about electric turbochargers.

[pentode]

If it's a turbo charger it's driven by exhaust flow. I suppose a super charger could be electric but that would be more complicated and trouble prone than a belt driven unit.

Yeah I didn't want to open that can of worms. There definitely are a lot of people out there trying to sell "electric turbochargers"... Maybe that's a good way to determine how real their product is.

 

[pentode]

Dunno if any of you guys have seen the Roadkill episode where they tried to create boost with a bunch of leaf blowers but it's a pretty good way to visualize how difficult it is to move enough air to make a difference in an internal combustion engine.
In that regard, turbos are pretty amazing things. Just gotta keep your bearings cool and lubed at 150,000RPM.

 

[Ranger850]

Years ago, I read an article about Mazda working on an electric turbo. IIRC a small electric motor helps spool the turbo quicker, the theory being, no turbo lag. The article was in a Car&Driver or Motor Trend type of magazine. Maybe 7-9 years ago

 

[Blmpkn]

Last time I knew... wrc cars used some half-electric turbo wizardry to eliminate the more traditional anti-lag setups.

Seems lame to me. "Real" anti-lag sounds SO COOL.... hard on the turbo though.


That being said... 99.9% of them will be snake oil.

 

[pentode]

This is a valid and interesting topic IMO. Maybe an actual engineer will join in and run some real numbers, but the way I see it, it's not whether it's feasible - it's definitely been done - it's just that you need in the many 10s of horsepower, if not more, to compress enough air to get a reasonable amount of boost. And making 10s of horsepower in an electric motor that you can fit in the empty space under the hood of a modern car is... Expensive. Like race team levels of expensive. You need exotic magnets and special materials etc.
If your turbine is small, it needs to spin insanely fast to create useful boost and no mere-mortal motor can spin that fast. Even centrifugal superchargers need internal gearing to get enough impeller speed, which adds losses.
Roots blowers get away with spinning slower because they pump a very large volume of air - and they also take a surprising amount of horsepower just to turn them. On a 600hp engine, I think you're talking about somewhere between 100-200hp just to turn the blower. Someone tell me how far off I am.

Edit: I guess my point is that real power gains aren't inexpensive, but a $150 Chinese Turbo kit is probably the cheapest power you can get as of now.

 

[Blmpkn]

This is a valid and interesting topic IMO. Maybe an actual engineer will join in and run some real numbers, but the way I see it, it's not whether it's feasible - it's definitely been done - it's just that you need in the many 10s of horsepower, if not more, to compress enough air to get a reasonable amount of boost. And making 10s of horsepower in an electric motor that you can fit in the empty space under the hood of a modern car is... Expensive. Like race team levels of expensive. You need exotic magnets and special materials etc.
If your turbine is small, it needs to spin insanely fast to create useful boost and no mere-mortal motor can spin that fast. Even centrifugal superchargers need internal gearing to get enough impeller speed, which adds losses.
Roots blowers get away with spinning slower because they pump a very large volume of air - and they also take a surprising amount of horsepower just to turn them. On a 600hp engine, I think you're talking about somewhere between 100-200hp just to turn the blower. Someone tell me how far off I am.

Edit: I guess my point is that real power gains aren't inexpensive, but a $150 Chinese Turbo kit is probably the cheapest power you can get as of now.

The problem is that no one makes turbo headers for that motor. That GREATLY complicates things.

The factory manifolds *might* be able to swap sides.. so the exit of the manifolds are now facing up&forward.. allowing a crossover pipe to be fabbed up a lot easier.. but that would definitely require ditching the mechanical fan, the EGR tube would then need Fab work, steering shaft clearance may be an issue.. etc etc..

Remote mounting the turbo In the bed would be cool.. and with that length of charge piping an intercooler wouldn't be necessary.. but then you gotta figure out how to get oil to the turbo.. and Lefty likes to actually use his bed...


A blower is the best option really.


Do it! M90s are all over the place on ebay.

 

[stmitch]

Remote mounting the turbo In the bed would be cool.. and with that length of charge piping an intercooler wouldn't be necessary.. but then you gotta figure out how to get oil to the turbo.. and Lefty likes to actually use his bed...


A blower is the best option really.


Do it! M90s are all over the place on ebay.

Other than the Whipple, or (maybe) Morana's custom parts you're going to end up doing just as much fab work to put a blower on. If not more. Manifolds to mate the blower with the intake of the engine, and bracketry to support it all while perfectly aligning the serpentine belt is pretty in depth work.

I like the mid range punch from a positive displacement supercharger, but a remote turbo wouldn't be super difficult. You don't have to put it in the bed and lose functionality. The exhaust already runs under the bed where there's a fair amount of room. Way more room than under the hood for sure. Keep it simple and have the turbo under the bed.

 

[Blmpkn]

Other than the Whipple, or (maybe) Morana's custom parts you're going to end up doing just as much fab work to put a blower on. If not more. Manifolds to mate the blower with the intake of the engine, and bracketry to support it all while perfectly aligning the serpentine belt is pretty in depth work.

I like the mid range punch from a positive displacement supercharger, but a remote turbo wouldn't be super difficult. You don't have to put it in the bed and lose functionality. The exhaust already runs under the bed where there's a fair amount of room. Way more room than under the hood for sure. Keep it simple and have the turbo under the bed.

I never think of putting turbos under something for whatever reason.. even though a lot of the time it looks super cool.. and there is ALL the room just like you said.

A guy local to me has a viper that has its turbos in the rear bumper.. 3" 'downpipes' and massive cone filters totally exposed.. same thing with an older 911. The setup on the Porsche looks a lot cooler though.. I'll have to snag some pictures next time I see them tooling around.

 

[bhgl]

As someone who's super interested in electrifying components on traditional engines, I've actually done a bit of research on this topic, while the theoretical benefits are pretty sweet, there's some big/weird drawbacks.

First, commercially available units/kits are few and far between and very expensive. Most that are out there in popular use are OEMs and cost thousand to replace. Torqamp seems to be the only reputable company out there selling units.

Second, constant power consumption. The Torqamp unit comes recommended with a secondary 8AH lithium battery in a box. These turbos typically use 48v or higher systems. If you were to find one that ran at 12 volts, the amp draw from your alternator is gonna be big if you're not using some kind of onboard energy storage that gets charged while the vehicle isn't in use. Check this out from the Torqamp FAQ:

If you're looking to use this to make your rig faster/more efficient all the time, you might end up with 0 boost after your battery runs out of juice. The main uses I've seen for E-Turbos is for race cars, where between laps/runs you can charge the auxiliary battery. A 135 amp Ranger alternator at most outputs 1.6 KW, this torqamp unit alone consumes 5 KW.

Third, installation. It's gonna be a bit of a nightmare, you'll most likely need a custom ECU to make the most out of your investment, the turbo uses it's own throttle sensor, and frankly I have no clue how the e-turbo talks with any of the built in computers on some of these setups, if it all. In theory it could be easier than a traditional turbo setup, considering you could leave your manifolds alone, not worry about things like oil lines on some units with reservoirs. But you'll still need to find a solution for an intercooler, intake routing, e.t.c.

 

[bobbywalter]

that electric unit cleeter used you can literally hook it right up to the intake tube, buy a wide band. keep an eye on it.



might get 20-30 hp....at some points. they really work.



if you want to make bigger power.....remote turbo and limit the psi to 5-6....again...buy a wideband setup...


going past 6 psi will require extensive tuning.

i put a remote turbo in a van. it was a old pos diesel. worked awesome. used a scavenge pump circulating a small tank below the turbo for oil...held about a gallon iirc. cut the floor up and it was all below deck when done....just had to move the carpet and lift the floor panel out to deal with it.. you do the same thing for pickup trucks.

only problem was it was noticeably sluggish when cold so he put a heater tube in it.

almost all of it was aluminized exhaust tubing....and almost all of that was from the junkyard. the scavenge pump was 70 bux on ebay.....i use them to centrifuge my oil.


lots of ways to do stuff.

 

[JoshT]

that electric unit cleeter used you can literally hook it right up to the intake tube, buy a wide band. keep an eye on it.



might get 20-30 hp....at some points. they really work.

I'll have to see if I can find that video. I seem to recall seeing one about that in the past, but never watched it.

If it's all electric and not probibitively expensive, I'd have to imagine that all of the gains are down low. I'd have to question how much it might rob on the higher end due to restriction.

 

[pentode]

I'll have to see if I can find that video. I seem to recall seeing one about that in the past, but never watched it.

If it's all electric and not probibitively expensive, I'd have to imagine that all of the gains are down low. I'd have to question how much it might rob on the higher end due to restriction.

If people are curious - the price is in the title. Ah, it shows in the thumbnail..

 

[Curious Hound]

If people are curious - the price is in the title. Ah, it shows in the thumbnail..

Do they accept Monopoly Money?

 

[JoshT]

That's what was talked about above. Requires a special battery to power the turbo. $2500 might be for the turbo itself, but the kit with a battery is over 3k (current pricing). If you've got bigger than a 3L, you're going to need two according to their website. Then you have to figure how much weight are you adding between the two turbos, piping, and batteries.

Still left with the questions of what is range on those batteries and what you going to do when it runs out? Doesn't seem very viable for off track or anything that'll leave town.

 

[Lefty]

Other than the Whipple, or (maybe) Morana's custom parts you're going to end up doing just as much fab work to put a blower on. If not more. Manifolds to mate the blower with the intake of the engine, and bracketry to support it all while perfectly aligning the serpentine belt is pretty in depth work.

I like the mid range punch from a positive displacement supercharger, but a remote turbo wouldn't be super difficult. You don't have to put it in the bed and lose functionality. The exhaust already runs under the bed where there's a fair amount of room. Way more room than under the hood for sure. Keep it simple and have the turbo under the bed.

They do take a lot of room. That was the first question on my mind. The second question is what about the engine itself? I would imagine that it would need plenty of work to handle the increased horse power.