eb44 vs fw44 or other??? with leafs

[mason_411]

ok so i got back from wheelin this weekend and sure enough my ttb 35 leaked out all of its fluid out and i think i heard it making some noise in 4 wheel drive but im not sure and cant check as my starter is fried. anyways if it is i may be in the market for a 44 sas. but i dont know too much about them. i want to run leafs and dont want it to be much wider than my rear axle as i wont have money to do a 9" at the same time. i know fw44 stands for full width 44 and i think only fw's have high pinions?? but before i read up i didnt even know there were two 44's out there!! so what are the differences between the two, and whats best for what/ my situation?? also pics, info, and especially steering info would be greatly appriciated!!

 

[bobbywalter]

goals and laws where you live generally dictate the course of action.



first find out what happened to the 35.

 

[bobbywalter]

the axles themselves are personal preference for the most part if you narrow the wider one.


the eb axle in stock form to me is junk....just adds to the cost of going down the path of incremental turd polishing. the pumpkin is nearly center for the most part which depending on powertrain combination can be a boon or bane...often the donors are drum brake and small ujointed...if you were given the axle for free you will have to spend 3-600 bux to make it as strong and stop as good as the d35...before the swap started...fawking brilliant plan.


hp 44 cut to desired goal makes much more sense all around....but depending on what your actual needs are is not a big upgrade over a adding turd polish to a d35...just polishing a different turd...


for leaf application its cheaper to go with a hi-boy or 250 d44 in general.

if your using a doubler you can even potentially option the dodge or gm offerings....


i like the full width axles....run a offset wheel and some flares...easy looking for the police to pass up....and will allow easy to source axle shafts when you need them.


imo...if a properly polished 35 wont get it....probably need a 60.

 

[mason_411]

isnt the cost and inconvenience of narrowing a fw44 just too much though? i mean youd have to have custom shafts made and made again everytime you broke one. seems kinda pointless in my opinion. and as for the eb44's you said the pumpkins are centered? all ive seen (that i thought were eb's... they were on broncos atleast haha) were driver side drop like mine but i dont know if it is in the same driver side position as mine? thanks for your opinions but im really looking for more facts haha a 60 is way out of reach and another 35 is NOT going back in if mines cracked.you seem pretty set in that 44's are crap

 

[mason_411]

and i LOVE full widths as well but i mean a full width front and STOCK rear ranger axle??? come on now hahaha i mainly wanna get a 44 stock (but disk conversion) now so i have 4x4 for a colorado winter and then build it over time. i know you should build one and then put it in so youre done with it but i dont have much time or money for that haha

 

[4x4junkie]

isnt the cost and inconvenience of narrowing a fw44 just too much though? i mean youd have to have custom shafts made and made again everytime you broke one. seems kinda pointless in my opinion. and as for the eb44's you said the pumpkins are centered? all ive seen (that i thought were eb's... they were on broncos atleast haha) were driver side drop like mine but i dont know if it is in the same driver side position as mine? thanks for your opinions but im really looking for more facts haha a 60 is way out of reach and another 35 is NOT going back in if mines cracked.you seem pretty set in that 44's are crap

D44s are not "crap" but they don't have a whole lot over the D35 aside from bigger brakes unless you throw a ton of cash at one, in which case you might as well just get the 60.
IOW, if you're blowing up your D35, you'll more than likely blow the D44 up too.

He also said the EB D44's pumpkin is "nearly centered". I think it's like 5" or something thereabout offset where most axles are 8" or more (8-10 I think is needed for any chance of the diff clearing the engine crossmember). Anyone with one who knows what it is will also want $$$$$$$$$$$$ for it too unless it's a bare rusted-out hunk missing most it's parts.

If it were me, I would just find another D35 chunk or whatever needed at a wrecker and slap it in. Do whatever upgrades you can to reduce the chance of whatever happened happening again (raise your breather hose up if it's because you filled the thing with mud). If it's because of your driving, then the only real options here are tone it down some, or SAS a D60 under there.

 

[Grunizzle]

A lot of people say skip the 44 because its junk, and go straight to a 60. I have to disagree with this statement. Obviously the 60 is stronger, no question. But look at weight, and size of the axles. Not every build needs a D60 to be a solid wheeler. There are several builds on here where a d44 is implemented and has seen little no breakage. IMO an axle the size of a 60 is pointless unless you are running 40s and/or some big HP.

 

[bobbywalter]

A lot of people say skip the 44 because its junk, and go straight to a 60. I have to disagree with this statement. Obviously the 60 is stronger, no question. But look at weight, and size of the axles. Not every build needs a D60 to be a solid wheeler. There are several builds on here where a d44 is implemented and has seen little no breakage. IMO an axle the size of a 60 is pointless unless you are running 40s and/or some big HP.

in the scheme of things its mere incremental-ism that bugs me... that makes it look like i am a d44 hater.....they sure as hell have their place...you see many many people go from 44 to 60 after wasting ridiculous amounts of money on shafts etc that originally thought the 60 was overrated or too expensive....then again theres guys with 351's running d28's with 36-40 in tires somehow.


sure a stock drum brake eb 44 to me is junk. theres a reason for that.

as an upgrade over a d35...they are

but that is coming from my perspective...i always ranged between 260-330ish hp...and using it.

a hp 44 with 35 spline upgrade with rcv shafts.... or d60 knuckles and shafts is brilliant to me.

because the weight and girth of a 60 is obviously really out of hand if your running 35's as a max on your all around trail truck.


i dont think many will disagree with that.



but honestly....
depending on actual needs....so is swapping in a d44. its a piss waste of time for the majority if your not running big tires and horsepower...and at that point...big tires and hp you need a built 44 or a d60...

i know for damn sure i can make a ttb act like a slinky. if i spend some coin on custom shafts (which i have to do with a eb axle anyway) and go to a 30 spline arb with ttb 44 outers its all bolt in go at your own pace incremental building one investment at a time. rig never has to be down longer then a few hours.

depends on your main usage.


in the end....its all up to you.

the easiest to install on the all around...no wheel change or width worries...

coming from a 2wd or d28 and stock powerlevels or if a guy simply wants a straight axle...... running a good hp d30 is my first choice for those staying in the 33-35 in tire range. they are everywhere and cheeeeeep. they are light and get the job done. leaf units are gravy install.

outside of that you need an eb setup or something from a scout or older jeep waggy/j truck. all will work, whether or not its worth it over the 35 is the question. that is individual concern.


all in all...i see more that dont regret it then do once the deed is done....

of the ones that do have regret.....

its usually because they didnt go big enough the first time.


thats why the only logical step for me from a d35 ttb is a dana 60.

i do have a bigger engine....and i do use big tires sometimes.

and i just went out into my yard and took a look at the ranger which is a kingpin 60 full width and the bronco 2 which has the gay eb axle in it. the damn pig is nearly center on them retarded eb things. i didnt like it in the 80's...and i still dont like it now.

but with just one t case and a 4.0 in the b2 along with 33-36 in tires being the norm....i sure as hell wont be changing it. it works excellent like it is....but if it had my d35 setup from my ranger in it it wouldnt bug me a bit.


and an 8.8 from a fullsize are pretty cheap, dont need a big dollar 9.

explorer 8.8 and a eb or waggy axle with a hub swap work out great.

 

[mason_411]

thanks for all the info guys!! and to answer the whole "main purpose" question its a dialy driver and a weekend worrier. im now running 33's but i plan on doing 35's and maybe 36's probably not much bigger though. and i wasnt planning on going and buying some $$$ axle thats already built. this is my first project as a 16 year old (and my first vehicle ever) so i wanna do all the work hahaha i was gunna go pull a bronco eb and convert to disks/match gearing and run it. when shit breaks upgrade and replace. as we all know is the process of a build. and i was also thinking about a d30?? i heard they were like tooth picks though??? more info on those? also what is need to be done if you get an eb44 to make the pumpkin in the proper place? or drive shaft moved to the pumpkin?? and just to clarify d60's are out of the question. i dont plan on doing too hard of trails in my truck so i dont need that much. hints the daily driver/ weekend worrier. im not tryin to make a trailer baby here. thanks again for all your info ive learned a lot.

 

[Grunizzle]

in the scheme of things its mere incremental-ism that bugs me... that makes it look like i am a d44 hater.....they sure as hell have their place...you see many many people go from 44 to 60 after wasting ridiculous amounts of money on shafts etc that originally thought the 60 was overrated or too expensive....then again theres guys with 351's running d28's with 36-40 in tires somehow.


sure a stock drum brake eb 44 to me is junk. theres a reason for that.

as an upgrade over a d35...they are


a hp 44 with 35 spline upgrade with rcv shafts.... or d60 knuckles and shafts is brilliant to me.

because the weight and girth of a 60 is obviously really out of hand if your running 35's as a max on your all around trail truck.


but honestly....
depending on actual needs....so is swapping in a d44. its a piss waste of time for the majority if your not running big tires and horsepower...and at that point...big tires and hp you need a built 44 or a d60...

i know for damn sure i can make a ttb act like a slinky. if i spend some coin on custom shafts (which i have to do with a eb axle anyway) and go to a 30 spline arb with ttb 44 outers its all bolt in go at your own pace incremental building one investment at a time. rig never has to be down longer then a few hours.

and an 8.8 from a fullsize are pretty cheap, dont need a big dollar 9.

explorer 8.8 and a eb or waggy axle with a hub swap work out great.

I completely agree with you. I should clarify, in my first post I was meaning HP Dana 44. The EB 44 is a waste of time. I would sooner put in a D30 than one of those.


But yes all in all we are beating a dead horse over and over again. Get an axle that will hold up to your driving and wheeling style, and your future plans.

 

[Hagan]

A lot of people say skip the 44 because its junk, and go straight to a 60. I have to disagree with this statement. Obviously the 60 is stronger, no question. But look at weight, and size of the axles. Not every build needs a D60 to be a solid wheeler. There are several builds on here where a d44 is implemented and has seen little no breakage. IMO an axle the size of a 60 is pointless unless you are running 40s and/or some big HP.

Exactly

Not to mention its unsprung weight with the d60.

Its $55 for Dutchman axles in Portland, OR to shorten and re-spline your axle shaft. If thats too expensive i'd suggest looking for a new hobby.

 

[4x4junkie]

No argument here, the D60 is a heavy beast for sure. My point (and I suspect Bobby's as well) is, anyone who does not need the heft of a D60 probably can get by just the same with the D35 they already have and a couple comparatively very cheap mods done to it (mason_411 seems to fit very well within that category).

If it's full width you're after (or you simply think it looks cool), then certainly that's one thing, but to swap in an axle with only a marginal strength difference for no other reason I have a bit of hard time justifying (save the swap for when it's actually needed).

 

[mason_411]

Thanks for throughing that price out there hagan! I would have expected it to be much more than that! But I'm fairly sure its just my seal on my d35 (haven't torn it out yet) so I think when I have it out I might do some bigger joints and maybe stinger axles and building a skid plate/ run the breather elsewhere. Since I wont need a new axle now I think ill start looking to pick up a fw44 that I can build up over time while I try and find a 9 inch or something. Thanks for all your help guys!

 

[mason_411]

*stronger axe shafts

 

[PlumCrazy]

Soo much EB hate....it makes me sad.lol. I lucked out and found an EB geared how I wanted (4.09) for under $400, and it came with a trashed FW axle for a disc brake donor. Even with buying new calipers rotors, pads, joints,bearings, joints, shafts, balljoints, and lockouts I was still under $650 total. If I was to buy all that for a 60 I'd be another 500 in the hole not including the axle itself.

That said...If I didn't get deal on my axle I would have gone straight to narrowed 60 no doubt.

I have a spool, Spicer 760 joints, and a its held up to my doubler,mild 4.0, and 35's so far. Im going to go out on limb and say Bobby and I have different driving styles.lol

-PlumCrazy