Distributor Fully Loose? Misfiring intermittently because of this? (VIDEO)

[RonD]

Dielectric grease is used on connections when you DO NOT want an electrical short, so it should never be used on the metal parts of any connections, because it stops the electrical connection

Regular grease has minerals in it so can conduct electricity, so could cause a short

So you can put dielectric grease on the rubber spark boots, but NOT the metal parts, this makes boot slide on easier(and off) and prevents water intrusion
Same for electrical connectors, dielectric grease on the plastic parts, NOT on metal pins and slots that need to pass electricity

Yes, spark timing needs to be precise, small degree changes make big changes in the operation of an engine

 

[Uncle Gump]

You might be spark knocking your engine senseless...

I would get a timing light on it sooner then later.

I can't remember if there is a washer above the distributor clamp... but you might be bottoming the bolt out in the bolt hole before it tightens the clamp. Or maybe the clamp is upside down.

 

[eightynine4x4]

You might be spark knocking your engine senseless...

I would get a timing light on it sooner then later.

I can't remember if there is a washer above the distributor clamp... but you might be bottoming the bolt out in the bolt hole before it tightens the clamp. Or maybe the clamp is upside down.

Yeah, there could be something missing such as a washer/spacer and the bolt is bottoming out. Will check all of this.

I can only hope it hasn’t caused damage, the timing being poorly aligned. The truck has been running better and better over the last several months as I take one segment at a time and restore it, so maybe the alignment has not been horrible just fluctuating a little this way and that since it’s been loose. The wires keep it fairly well in place.
Regardless I have to reset it so we’ll see how good it can perform once I have a timing light in hand.
By the way, does the rotor turn clockwise or counterclockwise? Asking because when adjusting for 10 degree “Before” TDC, does that mean adjusting to the left or to the right from TDC?

 

[RonD]

Look at the direction the crank is spinning, that decides before or after TDC

There are usually only marks for Before TDC since all engines need to have spark Before TDC


The air/fuel mix doesn't fully ignite/explode, when a spark plug sparks
It takes a few milliseconds for all the gasoline to ignite and explode to push the piston down
Lets say the time it takes to fully ignite air fuel mix is 500ms
When engine is idling at 700rpms it takes the piston 500ms to go from 10deg BTDC to 10deg ATDC
So if you spark at 10deg BTDC you would get full explosion at 10deg ATDC so explosion pushed down on the piston adding power to the crank shaft
But at 1,400 RPMs the piston is moving twice as fast, 250ms from 10deg BTDC to 10deg ATDC
So if you sparked at 10deg BTDC then full explosion wouldn't happen until 20deg ATDC so almost no power would be added to the crank shaft
So you move the spark to 20deg BTDC so you get full explosion at the same 10deg ATDC, same power
Then theres 2,800rpm, or 3,800rpm or 4,800rpm, ect.............

So as RPMs go up spark timing moves to higher BTDC, this is called "advancing the timing" to keep full explosion happening 10deg ATDC

But there is a monkey in the wrench
While the 14.7:1 air:fuel ratio does have a fixed and known burn/explosion time, when the mix gets Richer, 13:1, its burns FASTER
So when you "step on the gas" the mix gets richer so you want LESS spark advance than the set RPM advance to take advantage of the Richer faster burning fuel mix
And thats what the SPOUT connector is for, engine load advance or fuel mix advance, that's what Vacuum advance was for on older distributors

So its not as simple as setting base spark timing, thats a FOR SURE need starting point, but its JUST a starting point
Luck for you/us, the TFI module can do RPM spark advance on its own, and computer can do load advance on its own
So all we need to do is set base spark timing in this system

 

[eightynine4x4]

Look at the direction the crank is spinning, that decides before or after TDC

There are usually only marks for Before TDC since all engines need to have spark Before TDC


The air/fuel mix doesn't fully ignite/explode, when a spark plug sparks
It takes a few milliseconds for all the gasoline to ignite and explode to push the piston down
Lets say the time it takes to fully ignite air fuel mix is 500ms
When engine is idling at 700rpms it takes the piston 500ms to go from 10deg BTDC to 10deg ATDC
So if you spark at 10deg BTDC you would get full explosion at 10deg ATDC so explosion pushed down on the piston adding power to the crank shaft
But at 1,400 RPMs the piston is moving twice as fast, 250ms from 10deg BTDC to 10deg ATDC
So if you sparked at 10deg BTDC then full explosion wouldn't happen until 20deg ATDC so almost no power would be added to the crank shaft
So you move the spark to 20deg BTDC so you get full explosion at the same 10deg ATDC, same power
Then theres 2,800rpm, or 3,800rpm or 4,800rpm, ect.............

So as RPMs go up spark timing moves to higher BTDC, this is called "advancing the timing" to keep full explosion happening 10deg ATDC

But there is a monkey in the wrench
While the 14.7:1 air:fuel ratio does have a fixed and known burn/explosion time, when the mix gets Richer, 13:1, its burns FASTER
So when you "step on the gas" the mix gets richer so you want LESS spark advance than the set RPM advance to take advantage of the Richer faster burning fuel mix
And thats what the SPOUT connector is for, engine load advance or fuel mix advance, that's what Vacuum advance was for on older distributors

So its not as simple as setting base spark timing, thats a FOR SURE need starting point, but its JUST a starting point
Luck for you/us, the TFI module can do RPM spark advance on its own, and computer can do load advance on its own
So all we need to do is set base spark timing in this system

Thank you.
Is there a specific breed of timing lights that we use for the 2.9 Colgne? A specific Ford set of frequencies or something? Or is this just a matter of getting any timing light.

 

[ford4wd08]

Thank you.
Is there a specific breed of timing lights that we use for the 2.9 Colgne? A specific Ford set of frequencies or something? Or is this just a matter of getting any timing light.

Timing light is a timing light for the mosy part. Buy one with a turn back timing so you can see the advance working. Also one with a tach built in is very handy.

I bought this one and think it's great.

Innova 3568 Digital Timing Light https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EVYGV4/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_7PKNAE1JRA0J3RHX1EAB?psc=1

 

[eightynine4x4]

Timing light is a timing light for the mosy part. Buy one with a turn back timing so you can see the advance working. Also one with a tach built in is very handy.

I bought this one and think it's great.

Innova 3568 Digital Timing Light https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EVYGV4/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_7PKNAE1JRA0J3RHX1EAB?psc=1

Great, thank you!
So, i've had some luck today.. it turns out i was wrong about which bolt is the one. I was simply taking a bolt off the engine. The bolt i was looking for was directly behind the distributor and several inches lower, right in front of firewall. Access is actually much better. Also, i was able to tighten it down and it felt proper. The distributor stays in place firmly.
So naturally i did some testing of the startup and got it to a spot where the engine fires up well and everything sounds in good order. The engine is remarkably smoother sounding. Some clatter has disappeared. I don't think the timing was ever so bad before that it caused major problems because sometimes the engine would sound pretty smooth and other times clatter would crop up for a couple minutes and go away. But this position i have it in is definitely a smoother sounding engine. But, there is still some random lumpiness. This would go away a little bit more each time i adjusted the distributor clockwise a smidge. So one would think i should keep adjusting clockwise until it all evens out. BUT. I was restricted because a connector to the side of the distributor is now pushing against a copper pipe going to the engine. Pic attached. It's pretty annoying! I'm worried that when i have the timing light, i'll discover that i need to keep adjusting clockwise but won't be able to due to this blockage. Not sure why it was designed this way.
You can see the white square shape. That's the connector to distributor base. You can also see the copper/metal tube that goes down behind it. It's currently touching the white connector, so this is as far CW as it can be turned. I'd try disconnecting the connecting on other side of pipe, but that seems too far of a leap.
Anybody have any thoughts about that though? Can i bend or somehow reposition that metal tube if i need to for timing light adjustment?

 

[Uncle Gump]

Here is my thoughts...

Put a timing ight on it and if you can't get it into spec... then worry about it.

Chances are you will be just fine. If you can't get it in time where it is.... you will have to pull the distributor and move it a tooth.

 

[eightynine4x4]

Here is my thoughts...

Put a timing ight on it and if you can't get it into spec... then worry about it.

Chances are you will be just fine. If you can't get it in time where it is.... you will have to pull the distributor and move it a tooth.

Gotcha, thanks. If I recall correctly from the Haynes, the distributor isn’t so difficult to pull.
I took the truck for a 20 minute ride after bolting down the distributor at a functional position and the performance started off fairly well but got worse as the engine warmed up. So it’s definitely off in one direction or the other. I parked it and tried starting again out of curiosity and it had a harder time starting up again, and also stalled when shifting into R or D. Im looking forward to getting the timing light but I may try slightly adjusting the timing before I receive it just to see if I can get a sense of what direction it needs to end up in relation to that copper pipe.
In the Haynes for the warmed up alignment there is mention of removing a vacuum advance line (if I have it), and removing the shorting bar, and also disconnecting a barometric pressure switch (if i have it) and jumping it’s now open points.

Is the “shorting bar” the same thing as the SPOUT piece? And how do I know if I have the vacuum advance or the barometric pressure switch?

 

[eightynine4x4]

Just following up. That copper line was more relocatable than I’d realized, so I went about the process as best I could without the timing light. Indeed adjusting it further to the right, past that copper line, was even more improvement. Got it at a spot where little to no misfires ever occur, and the engine runs smoothest. It’s defintely a big improvement. The idle speed seems ok. I took it for a ride and the engine really is healthier sounding. I’ll still do a proper timing adjustment when the light arrives. Will need to clean up my engine though so I can even see the TDC marks at all!

 

[gaz]

89,

You could do a mock timing adjustment with only a vacuum gage. The same procedure is followed with the following exception; while adjusting the distributor timing, as it is advanced the vacuum will increase but once it peaks it will flutter then start to fall. Once the vacuum starts to fall, retard the timing and then advance the distributor again until it flutteres at Max vacuum, then retard the timing just slightly. Shut the engine off, secure the distributor and plug in the spout connector.

 

[eightynine4x4]

89,

You could do a mock timing adjustment with only a vacuum gage. The same procedure is followed with the following exception; while adjusting the distributor timing, as it is advanced the vacuum will increase but once it peaks it will flutter then start to fall. Once the vacuum starts to fall, retard the timing and then advance the distributor again until it flutteres at Max vacuum, then retard the timing just slightly. Shut the engine off, secure the distributor and plug in the spout connector.

I was wondering about this thanks. Where is the proper spot to hook up to the vacuum, and how much Hg range should i be expecting to measure? I've got a couple different vacuum gauges.

I'm also wondering if I have a vacuum connection to the distributor that i'm supposed to be disconnecting for the distributor adjustment step, while the SPOUT connector is also disconnected, which is mentioned in the Haynes that some trucks have. I didn't see much of anything appearing to be a vacuum line to distributor but am not sure what to look for.

 

[ford4wd08]

I was wondering about this thanks. Where is the proper spot to hook up to the vacuum, and how much Hg range should i be expecting to measure? I've got a couple different vacuum gauges.

I'm also wondering if I have a vacuum connection to the distributor that i'm supposed to be disconnecting for the distributor adjustment step, while the SPOUT connector is also disconnected, which is mentioned in the Haynes that some trucks have. I didn't see much of anything appearing to be a vacuum line to distributor but am not sure what to look for.

You don't have any Vaccum hook ups on a TFI distributor for your 2.9. The spout effectively replaces the vaccum with other input from the engine computer.

I still say get it set right with a timing light. That way you know it's correct to the factory spec.

 

[gaz]

89,

The vacuum gage is attached to intake manifold pressure. The adjustment is still performed after being completely warmed, then the spout disconnected.

Normal vacuum will be varied and DOES NOT MATTER when adjusting this way because you need to locate the timing where maximum vacuum is achieved, then retard just below the gage needle flutter.

If the procedure I'm describing doesn't make complete sense to you, please make the timing adjustment in the conventional manner, in accordance with the vehicle's manual using a timing light.

 

[eightynine4x4]

89,

The vacuum gage is attached to intake manifold pressure. The adjustment is still performed after being completely warmed, then the spout disconnected.

Normal vacuum will be varied and DOES NOT MATTER when adjusting this way because you need to locate the timing where maximum vacuum is achieved, then retard just below the gage needle flutter.

If the procedure I'm describing doesn't make complete sense to you, please make the timing adjustment in the conventional manner, in accordance with the vehicle's manual using a timing light.

Gotcha. I'll go ahead and attempt this since it looks like shipping is taking forever these days and the light could be a while.
I'm curious how it will compare to where I currently have the distributor clamped. The cycle of the cylinders is something I've never heard in this truck before, just an even steady purrrr. Almost don't even want to touch it at all, but maybe it can improve. I haven't driven it at higher rev's and speeds yet, and I am hoping that this tuning can help alleviate the clammer that has always occurred when going above 2500 RPM's especially up hill. Sounds like someone sitting inside the engine playing the spoons! I can tell it's already better than it used to be but i haven't pushed it fully. Amazingly, driving locally a bit, the loudest thing now is the injectors.