conceal carry gun rant

[mattc113]

so, i just got my conceal carry licence about a month ago. when i went to get it, i bought a kel-tec p-11 to qualify with and to carry. i like how it shoots, but i wanted something to carry in my pocket, and it was just a little too bulky. so the logical part of me started to kick in. i thought, "im looking for a carry gun, wont shoot it often, hopefully never have to defend myself, but if i do, i want it to function, so a quality is important." i went out and bought a Bauer semiauto in .25acp. went to get some ammo at my local gun shop, and the guy behind the counter made fun of the gun calling it a "toy".
i laughed and said "yeah, its no hand cannon, but it will work as a good pocket pistol for self defense." what followed was a 15min heated conversation, mostly heated on his side until he said i was a "dumbass" that "shouldnt be around guns", then i got irritated, and ended up walking out empty handed and going to bass pro, with no problems, and going to another range.
/rant

now for discussion

the old standby opinion that i hear all the time is "well i would never carry anything smaller than a 9mm" or "anything less than a .38 or .357 is a waste of time".

i believe this to be false for a few reasons. if i supply to that logic then it would make as much sense to say, "anything less than asemiauto 12 guage is pointless". i wont lie, bigger calibers do alot more damage, ie, 9mm vs .44mag, .44mag is more devastating. My theory is, if i were a thief, and i ran up and demanded someones purse/wallet/car/ect., and they pulled a gun on me, i wouldnt say, "hey, is that a .32 or a 9mm?" or "you using +p ammo?"

if someone is pointing a gun at me with the intent to shoot, i dont care what caliber it is...i dont want to get shot by anything.

and i think 7rds of .25 would be enough of a deterrent to someone, mostlu due to the fact that if i ever do pull it in selfe defense, im unloading it in their chest.

thoughts?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I have read that .25 ACP is marginal for self defence... no experiance or anything with that though.

One nice thing about the big box stores, they will usually just sell it to you rather than push their own opinions. That can come back and bite you too though but it is hard to tell if there is any reason behind their theory or if they are getting sick of looking at gun X in their counter and want it gone.

Arguing or trying to belittle something a customer has is a very bad idea though... then it is nothing but insulting.

7 shots with a smaller gun would make the guy re-evaluate his life choices if he has much of a thought process for sure... if they are on something it might just make them madder too.

If there was one caliber that was perfect for every situation and need only one caliber would be made.

 

[hondaxr650]

I carry a .380 and all the gun "experts" tell me it's a joke and not good enough. I always offer to shoot them with it to prove me wrong but have never had anyone take me up on my offer. That right there is enough to prove they are full of shit. About 95% of the time if a gun is used in self defense it's never fired anyway, just having a gun makes the bad guy run away wetting his pants.

 

[Explorin94]

Pointing a gun at anyone is a deterrent all in itself reguardless of caliber. It's the intimadation factor that people are scared of not knowing if that person with the gun is a crack shot and knows how to use it. I have carried a concealed weapon for about 15 years now and have never (knock on wood) had to pull it out to defend myself or a family member. The gun itself is ONLY for self defense if that threat arises. People who actually carry concealed think that they can deter and/or prevent crime at the local 7/11 and be covered in whatever happens. For instance if someone is carring a weapon and it's concealed and that person is standing in line at the 7/11 and a guy with a knife walks in to rob the place, the person who is carrying that weapon shoots the guy with the knife guess who's also going to jail on a UUW Charge? Yep you guessed it, guess who also loses the right to carry that concealed weapon. Right again.
Believe me when I say this...I am not against carring a concealed weapon nor shooting someone who poses a threat to me with an equal weapon. People just need to be more educated on this subject...when they can and when they can't. The other question that comes to mind is......Can you defend yourself one on one (close quarters) when you are being threatened of having that gun taken away by an assailant?
I don't think caliber has anything to do with carrying a gun. I carry a 9mm, a buddy carries a 45, his wife has a .380. They all will leave marks and hurt when they penetrate. All you have to do is point it at them and watch the water works.
Studies have been done and it shows that states, cities and areas that allow qualified people to carry a concealed weapon have a lower crime rate.

 

[88_Eddie]

if a guy that owns a gun shop thinks it's a good idea to start insulting his customers, his opinion on CC handgun calibers is the least of his worries.

the best CC gun/caliber for one person may be an awful choice for someone else. too many variables there.

 

[Jim Oaks]

I use to carry a .25 cal in my back pocket with my badge wallet behind it to give it a flat look. I even carried it in an ankle holster. For me, it was a close range weapon. As in, I would pull it out and shoot you point blank with it. It would never be a primary. Just a close range backup.

 

[srteach]

The question of caliber in a CCW is moot. That hole in the business end looks HUGE when it's pointed at you, no matter the real dimensions.

Criminals are usually gutless opportunists. If someone defends themselves (by any means), they look for easier prey. Watch truTV for examples. I actually asked a knife wielding robber if I should shoot him. He ran. I wasn't actually armed at the time.

 

[skippy]

Any firearm with you is better than the one home in the safe. I prefer .45 but just now I'm wearing a 9x18 makarov,if the bad guy needs a doctor or a coroner its all good. Git-r-done!!!!

 

[4.0B2]

i wouldn't carry something that small. i'm getting a 45 probably. doesn't matter...

if you pull the gun, INTEND to use it.. don't pull a gun and then back down to shoot... if you need to pull it then you'll probably need to use it, if they don't take off running right away.

idk what the damage is a 25 will do..? i've seen a 22 do some hurt on a guy once tho.. my aunt had a guy break in her home and start going after her, she pulled out a hi-point 22 sportsman and let him have all 18 rounds... he didn't die, but he regrets his choices everyday while sitting in jail looking like a mangled freak.

anyways, i wouldn't support a guy that insults his customers like that. sure i've had customers i've wanted to say stuff to, but i won't do it... its just not right. take your money elsewhere. and IMO, get a bigger gun! lol..

just carry, be safe, be prepared, and hope you never need it.

 

[mattc113]

well, i took it to a buddys house and we put a few clips through it. shoots well, he didnt have any gel, but when he gets some i'll give it a try.

here's a vid for example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6gQH2erxK4

you can get more penetration out of the 50gr, but this had the most expansion

 

[lone-wolf]

A small calibre gun you're comfortable with and carry is always better than nothing.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

idk what the damage is a 25 will do..? i've seen a 22 do some hurt on a guy once tho.. my aunt had a guy break in her home and start going after her, she pulled out a hi-point 22 sportsman and let him have all 18 rounds... he didn't die, but he regrets his choices everyday while sitting in jail looking like a mangled freak.

A .22LR probably kills more people every year than any other caliber, they are stupid common and people don't respect them. They plain don't play fair, rather than a clean entry/exit wound a guy that got shot in the arm might have it go out the groin... stuff like that. If they hit a bone they just bounce around like the ball in a pinball machine punching a little hole in whatever organ they come across.

One perk for a smaller cartridge, it is cheaper to stay in practice... if you are more familiar with your gun and put your bullet where it counts it might be more effective than a bigger bullet not where you want it.

 

[4.0B2]

A .22LR probably kills more people every year than any other caliber, they are stupid common and people don't respect them. They plain don't play fair, rather than a clean entry/exit wound a guy that got shot in the arm might have it go out the groin... stuff like that. If they hit a bone they just bounce around like the ball in a pinball machine punching a little hole in whatever organ they come across.

just imagine all 18 rounds... i think i have a pic of that guy somewhere, after he "recovered"... i'll see if i can find it.

 

[gjm4l]

Having a smaller caliber gun you'll have with you constantly is way better than that big .45 you LOATHE putting on everyday and usually end up leaving it at home or in the truck rather than on your person. As far as the gun shop "pros" go I've come across a heck of a lot of them that have NO clue what they're talking about. Gun knowledge sure, maybe, but the ability to turn it into a coherent arguement/statement thats not I'm right your wrong because I'm better than you since I work in a gunstore, now thats a rarity. Real knowledgable (sp?) gun guys are still out there but seem to be getting fewer and far between.

Last week I watched a guy ask a question about his 9mm having FTF's all of a sudden, the guy I always talk to said magazine follower (common) but before he could explain a younger guy (the typical know-it-all store clerk) interrupted and said you must have been limp wristing. Took it from the customers hand, grabbed some ammo went back to the range (as he went the customer said "I've been shooting the same gun for 10yrs") I heard pop,pop,pop,pop as he unloaded about six rounds rapid fire, came back out, plopped the gun down and walked away saying yep works fine must be you. What a Prick.....

On the small caliber argument, you can use the point I usually bring up. Yeah it's "only" a .25 or .22, etc. but I'll tell you what, I'll put a few rounds into your face then you can tell me if it was effective or not, I have yet to have any takers. Just make sure you say it politely so it's not you threatening to shoot someone lol.

 

[Hahnsb2]

You're really no better off carrying a .25 over a .22 IMO, but sure it beats nothing. For me, .380 minimum.