• Welcome Visitor! Please take a few seconds and Register for our forum. Even if you don't want to post, you can still 'Like' and react to posts.

2.3L ('83-'97) Clutch Bleeding Issues After Transmission Swap


Paul18181818

New Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
22
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger XLT
I have posted here about this swap before and have narrowed my issues down to the clutch hydraulics. To recap, I swapped my 1993 2.3 2wd ranger from an a4ld automatic to a m5od-r1 manual transmission. At this point, I have dropped the transmission 3 times trying to narrow down the issues. I have installed a brand new master cylinder, line, slave, clutch, pressure plate, pilot bearing and rear main seal. The master cylinder was pre-bled when I bought it and I have both gravity bled and pump bled the system multiple times. Still, I get a spongy pedal after a couple seconds. What are some other techniques I can try to get the air out? I'm beyond frustrated at this point and will likely try bench bleeding the master cylinder again this weekend. Any help is appreciated!
 


Rowdy Fitzgerald

Hog hunter
Firefighter
EMT / Paramedic
V8 Engine Swap
OTOTM Winner
Solid Axle Swap
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
2,271
Reaction score
372
Points
113
Location
Nevada
Vehicle Year
1987, 1989
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
5.0,4.0
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
Solid Axle Swap 4x4
Total Lift
6”
Tire Size
35
Pull the master cylinder, stretch it out straight while keeping the reservoir up. Start tapping it with a tool from the bottom, up. Then pump the master cylinder to try to get the air to back feed, up into the reservoir.
 

Bgunner

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
1,755
Reaction score
1,039
Points
113
Location
Western Mass.
Vehicle Year
1994
Make / Model
Ford/Ranger XLT
Engine Type
3.0 V6
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Tire Size
225/70/R15
My credo
If it's not broken Don't Fix It!

Paul18181818

New Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
22
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger XLT
So today I pulled the master cylinder and bench bled it as instructed. It felt good and has less than a 1/16 in of play when disconnected from the slave. I reconnected and I still have the same problem. I also rented a vacuum bleeder, no luck there either. Still the same problem, the clutch feels great when the engine is off but as soon as I turn the engine on and try to go in gear, the clutch gets mushy and I can’t get it in gear. Any ideas?
 

Rowdy Fitzgerald

Hog hunter
Firefighter
EMT / Paramedic
V8 Engine Swap
OTOTM Winner
Solid Axle Swap
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
2,271
Reaction score
372
Points
113
Location
Nevada
Vehicle Year
1987, 1989
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
5.0,4.0
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
Solid Axle Swap 4x4
Total Lift
6”
Tire Size
35
There is no reason for it to change when the engine is running. It’s not vacuum boosted like brakes. There’s air trapped somewhere.
 

Paul18181818

New Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
22
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger XLT
It doesn't make sense to me either, but that's the only way I can describe it. The clutch pedal only softens up if the engine is running. With the engine off, I can press it as many times as I want and it won't go soft. With the engine on, the clutch softens up after the first pump or two. It feels like air in the line, but I have tried every method of bleeding at this point. Is it possible the new slave unit was defective?
 

Rowdy Fitzgerald

Hog hunter
Firefighter
EMT / Paramedic
V8 Engine Swap
OTOTM Winner
Solid Axle Swap
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
2,271
Reaction score
372
Points
113
Location
Nevada
Vehicle Year
1987, 1989
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
5.0,4.0
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
Solid Axle Swap 4x4
Total Lift
6”
Tire Size
35
It is possible. Have you tried putting the front tires on ramps or jack stands. Then bleeding it?
Are you pumping the clutch 10 times, holding the pedal to the floor, while bleeding it? You must hold the pedal down, open the bleeder valve until all the pressure is relieved and then close the valve before the pedal is released. Otherwise it will suck air back into it.
 

Bgunner

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
1,755
Reaction score
1,039
Points
113
Location
Western Mass.
Vehicle Year
1994
Make / Model
Ford/Ranger XLT
Engine Type
3.0 V6
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Tire Size
225/70/R15
My credo
If it's not broken Don't Fix It!
New means not tested now a days. They used to test parts before boxing but they no longer do that so more defective parts leave the manufacture.
 

Paul18181818

New Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
22
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger XLT
I will try lifting the front of the truck next time I bleed it but something seems wrong. I may have to pull the transmission again to inspect or replace the slave.
 

alwaysFlOoReD

Forum Staff Member
TRS Forum Moderator
TRS Banner 2012-2015
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
13,871
Reaction score
5,031
Points
113
Location
Calgary, Canada
Vehicle Year
'91, '80, '06
Make / Model
Ford, GMC,Dodge
Engine Size
4.0,4.0,5.7
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Take a look at the firewall and make sure it's not cracked and/or flexing by the pedals. Another possibility I've also had is the ear or both ears on the master are cracked/broken. Both situations act like air in the lines.
 

Paul18181818

New Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
22
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger XLT
So today I disconnected the master from the slave. The clutch pedal has no movement at all when I press on it, so I think the master is fine. Then, I took my old clutch line and used it to pressure bleed the slave separately using my vacuum bleeder. Then I reconnected the two and before turning the truck on, had my friend press the pedal down while I checked the travel through the transmission port. I saw good travel and could see the pressure plate raising slightly indicating to me that it should be releasing just fine. But again I have the same problem: The clutch feels great when the truck is off, and if I start the truck with the clutch down in first gear I can move it in and out of gear just fine. However, if I put it in neutral and release the clutch, I immediately feel slop in the clutch pedal and I am unable to get it back in gear. It doesn’t make sense to me because it shouldn’t matter if the truck is running or not, yet here I am. I’m considering dropping the transmission for what will be the 5th time and putting a new slave in but i’m hesitant because the slave I put in there was new and I can’t see any fluid leaking from it. Any help is appreciated.
 

Bgunner

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
1,755
Reaction score
1,039
Points
113
Location
Western Mass.
Vehicle Year
1994
Make / Model
Ford/Ranger XLT
Engine Type
3.0 V6
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Tire Size
225/70/R15
My credo
If it's not broken Don't Fix It!
Internal parts could be bad on the so called new slave cylinder preventing full movement. This issue reads as the slave is not fully disengaging the clutch. Just because the pressure plate moves a little does not mean that the clutch disk is fully disengaged leading to not being able to put it in first while the engine is spinning, trans input shaft is spinning due to not being fully dis engaged.
 

gw33gp

Well-Known Member
U.S. Military - Veteran
TRS Banner 2010-2011
Ham Radio Operator
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
1,728
Reaction score
531
Points
113
Location
Costa Mesa, CA
Vehicle Year
2002
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0 SOHC
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Tire Size
33"
I know you said you replaced the pilot bearing but that is one thing that can make a difference between the engine running or not. If it is binding some way or the transmission input shaft is contacting the flywheel rotation in some way. I know that would not make the clutch pedal soft but it would make it difficult to get it in gear.

It is very doubtful that you have installed the clutch disc backward but that is another thing that can make a difference between the engine running of not. I don't know if it would cause a soft pedal.

What brand components did you use? I am chasing a problem somewhat related to yours without the issue of the engine running. My clutch engages with the pedal to close to the floor. It does disengage and I can get it into gear and shift with no problem. I just have to make sure I step on the pedal all the way to the floor. I can bleed the slave and get a little air out. It improves a little for a while but eventually gets worse again.

When I did the initial slave bleed, I got a lot of white grease like stuff come out with the brake fluid. Sometimes, with the next few bleeds I have gotten a little more out. I don't know if that is related to my problem, but it is not right.

Normally, I use LUK components and I did again this time. I did make one exception, I used a Sachs slave because it has a rubber bellows that I felt would protect it from dirt. I do a lot of off-road trips and that seemed important. That may have been a mistake.
 
Last edited:

89Twincharge

Active Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
265
Reaction score
182
Points
43
Vehicle Year
89
Make / Model
Ford
Transmission
Manual
Was the input shaft clean of all rust and debris and lightly lubed? Had a situation like this customer did own clutch and it was doing same thing. When I pulled trans input shaft was caked with clutch fluid and disk material and was binding up before it moved all the way in/out when it started the the vibration/movement shook it free and no clutch! If not then faulty slave! Good luck!
 

Paul18181818

New Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
22
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger XLT
I have the transmission out currently and I can’t see anything wrong with the slave. It’s not leaking or anything and looks exactly the same as the replacement. The input shaft wasn’t too dirty, but I greased it up anyway just in case. Is there any compatibility issue with the parts I have? I think the transmission is from a 94, flywheel is from a 95, clutch kit is for a 95 without the self adjust, and it’s going in a 93 ranger. I’m starting to think I might just need to put some shims behind the slave cylinder to push it out a bit more.
 

Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad

Staff online

Members online

Today's birthdays

Member & Vendor Upgrades

For a small yearly donation, you can support this forum and receive a 'Supporting Member' banner, or become a 'Supporting Vendor' and promote your products here. Click the banner to find out how.

Latest posts

Truck of The Month


Kirby N.
March Truck of The Month

Recently Featured

Want to see your truck here? Share your photos and details in the forum.

Follow TRS On Instagram

TRS Events

25th Anniversary Sponsors

Check Out The TRS Store


Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad

Sponsored Ad


Amazon Deals

Top