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CLUELESS


Orca

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"Total misfire count" is interesting, but per-cylinder misfire information would probably be more useful.

The PCM in your 2003 Mazda should report that, via what's known as "Mode $06".

Torque Pro should be capable of showing that data, probably somewhere under "Vehicle Testing" or "Test Results" or similar. (I don't use Torque Pro, so I cannot be any more specific.) You should be able to find a page showing something like "TID:$53 CID:$xx" where "xx" will be "01" to "06", representing your 6 cylinders. For each cylinder, it should show a maximum allowable misfire percentage and your current percentage.

If you make it that far, take a look around because there is other Mode $06 data about misfires that might help too.

For 2003 Ford / Lincoln / Mercury gasoline-engine vehicles, the gory details are in this PDF document (which I'm assuming applies to your Mazda too):

2003 MY OBD System Operation Summary for Gasoline Engines

The misfire information begins on page 8, but the top 5 entries in the table on page 11 is what I'm really aiming you at.

Hope that helps a bit....

EDIT: Clarify meaning with 'allowable'.
 
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Shadowridr1

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The only other thing mechanical that could cause it would be if and exhaust valve isn't opening. It certainly has a misfire according to your counts.

I just can't get past the tapping... sure sounds like something in the valvetrain.
QUESTION..... since I replaced the heads, but not the lifters, pushrods or rockers and now have this lifter tick, IS IT POSSIBLE that the deck height of the new heads with new gaskets could be just a few thousandths taller than my old heads and gaskets...I mean this would not put as much downpressure and allow the rockers to slide on the bridges. This in turn would cause the ticking, correct....I ask because I kept the rockers, bridges and pushrods all in order AND I did not have this issue before the head replacement.... I absolutely CAN NOT find rocker arms anywhere..... the injectors are ordered, lifters, pushrods and bridges will be ordered today unless I can find rockers and I assume this will come with the bridges...
 

Shadowridr1

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"Total misfire count" is interesting, but per-cylinder misfire information would probably be more useful.

The PCM in your 2003 Mazda should report that, via what's known as "Mode $06".

Torque Pro should be capable of showing that data, probably somewhere under "Vehicle Testing" or "Test Results" or similar. (I don't use Torque Pro, so I cannot be any more specific.) You should be able to find a page showing something like "TID:$53 CID:$xx" where "xx" will be "01" to "06", representing your 6 cylinders. For each cylinder, it should show a maximum allowable misfire percentage and your current percentage.

If you make it that far, take a look around because there is other Mode $06 data about misfires that might help too.

For 2003 Ford / Lincoln / Mercury gasoline-engine vehicles, the gory details are in this PDF document (which I'm assuming applies to your Mazda too):

2003 MY OBD System Operation Summary for Gasoline Engines

The misfire information begins on page 8, but the top 5 entries in the table on page 11 is what I'm really aiming you at.

Hope that helps a bit....

EDIT: Clarify meaning with 'allowable'.
I downloaded the forscan app too. Just learning it, but I did do this just now.

 

Uncle Gump

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QUESTION..... since I replaced the heads, but not the lifters, pushrods or rockers and now have this lifter tick, IS IT POSSIBLE that the deck height of the new heads with new gaskets could be just a few thousandths taller than my old heads and gaskets...I mean this would not put as much downpressure and allow the rockers to slide on the bridges. This in turn would cause the ticking, correct....I ask because I kept the rockers, bridges and pushrods all in order AND I did not have this issue before the head replacement.... I absolutely CAN NOT find rocker arms anywhere..... the injectors are ordered, lifters, pushrods and bridges will be ordered today unless I can find rockers and I assume this will come with the bridges...
i don't think a couple thousandths would be enough to make a diiference.
 

Shadowridr1

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i don't think a couple thousandths would be enough to make a diiference.
Ok but theoretically could that be a possibility? And if so would new lifters and pushrods be all I would need. Cause I can't find rockers
 

Uncle Gump

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I've seen engines poop out the intake a few times. GM in the 80's had a bunch of trouble with camshafts. The lobes would wear then exhaust valves wouldn't open and would cause a pop out the intake. I've also seen firing order off do it too. I've also seen bent push rods or broken cam followers do it too.

Have you taken the valve cover off this engine and rolled it over to check operation of the valvetrain? Are you positive the firing order is correct?

I simply can't say that if you replace all that stuff it will correct your problem.
 

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QUESTION..... since I replaced the heads, but not the lifters, pushrods or rockers and now have this lifter tick, IS IT POSSIBLE that the deck height of the new heads with new gaskets could be just a few thousandths taller than my old heads and gaskets...I mean this would not put as much downpressure and allow the rockers to slide on the bridges. This in turn would cause the ticking, correct....I ask because I kept the rockers, bridges and pushrods all in order AND I did not have this issue before the head replacement.... I absolutely CAN NOT find rocker arms anywhere..... the injectors are ordered, lifters, pushrods and bridges will be ordered today unless I can find rockers and I assume this will come with the bridges...
You would have to have a very big difference (+/- 30 thousandths) to make a lifter tick. If the difference is in the heads (decks cut too much?) Then none of that will fix it. You would have to have custom length push rods made or shim the existing rockers.
 

Shadowridr1

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I've seen engines poop out the intake a few times. GM in the 80's had a bunch of trouble with camshafts. The lobes would wear then exhaust valves wouldn't open and would cause a pop out the intake. I've also seen firing order off do it too. I've also seen bent push rods or broken cam followers do it too.

Have you taken the valve cover off this engine and rolled it over to check operation of the valvetrain? Are you positive the firing order is correct?

I simply can't say that if you replace all that stuff it will correct your problem.
Yes sir on both..... I've checked the firing order so many times it's ridiculous. Pulled valve covers and rotated the engine over about 5x.... thought about putting the plenum back on and figuring out how to keep the cool and wires clear, and start the engine with the valve covers off. Kinda like old school valve lash adjustment, but I was afraid it would mess up something so I didn't
 

Orca

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I downloaded the forscan app too. Just learning it, but I did do this just now.
Here's an image taken from your video showing cylinders 4, 5, and 6:
FORScan-cylinder-misfire.jpg

I noticed that the "Limit:" values for all 6 cylinders is zero. This is not normal. I suspect that it means that the misfire monitor is not actually running.

I'm guessing that at some point, you've disconnected the battery cable, wiping out the KAM (Keep-Alive Memory) in the PCM. This would mean that the misfire monitors won't run until the "correction factor" for the "Profile Correction" software in the PCM is re-learned, by doing one or more 60-to-40-mph, no-throttle, no-brake decelerations. IMHO, until you can do that, the misfire data should be treated with suspicion, unfortunately.

P.S. That video also shows that 3 (all?) of your O2 sensors have a problem with the heater element current being below minimum, so after you solve the engine issue, that might be worth a further look.
 

Shadowridr1

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Here's an image taken from your video showing cylinders 4, 5, and 6:
View attachment 67504
I noticed that the "Limit:" values for all 6 cylinders is zero. This is not normal. I suspect that it means that the misfire monitor is not actually running.

I'm guessing that at some point, you've disconnected the battery cable, wiping out the KAM (Keep-Alive Memory) in the PCM. This would mean that the misfire monitors won't run until the "correction factor" for the "Profile Correction" software in the PCM is re-learned, by doing one or more 60-to-40-mph, no-throttle, no-brake decelerations. IMHO, until you can do that, the misfire data should be treated with suspicion, unfortunately.

P.S. That video also shows that 3 (all?) of your O2 sensors have a problem with the heater element current being below minimum, so after you solve the engine issue, that might be worth a further look.
I've put new upstream o2 sensors in. The downstream has not been replaced yet, it's still on the workbench. Yes, the battery was disconnected during the head replacement, which took me about 2 weeks total.....BTW thank you so much for the reading material. I plan on printing it out.
 

Orca

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I've put new upstream o2 sensors in. The downstream has not been replaced yet, it's still on the workbench.
That makes it even a bit stranger that all 3 are reporting the same failure (heater amps below minimum). But that problem can certainly wait until the other one is solved. Keeping my fingers crossed for now...
 

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That makes it even a bit stranger that all 3 are reporting the same failure (heater amps below minimum). But that problem can certainly wait until the other one is solved. Keeping my fingers crossed for now...
Thank you, it's driving me crazy. I'm thinking I've got the lifter tick figure out but not certain, I could possibly make it worse idk. I'm hoping the bridges, lifters and pushrods will close up the slack between the rockers and the bridges and not make the clearance worse. The popping I'm thinking is bad injectors, cause I did a clear flood mode on it yesterday and it started on me 2x before it wouldn't. The truck has 130k miles and everything I've replaced with the exception of coil pack and plugs have been OEM.
 

Orca

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That makes it even a bit stranger that all 3 are reporting the same failure (heater amps below minimum).
Don't know why I didn't think of this before :sleep:, but "better late than never", right? :)

I don't want to distract you (or this thread) from the primary focus, but since it appears that you only have 3 O2 sensors (unlike my 2004 Ranger 4.0L, which uses 4), it's probably worth checking the associated fuse. I'm not sure if the Mazdas are the same as the Rangers, but the 2003 Ranger owner's manual says that it's fuse #41 (20-amp) in the under-hood fusebox (the so-called "power distribution box").
 

Shadowridr1

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Don't know why I didn't think of this before :sleep:, but "better late than never", right? :)

I don't want to distract you (or this thread) from the primary focus, but since it appears that you only have 3 O2 sensors (unlike my 2004 Ranger 4.0L, which uses 4), it's probably worth checking the associated fuse. I'm not sure if the Mazdas are the same as the Rangers, but the 2003 Ranger owner's manual says that it's fuse #41 (20-amp) in the under-hood fusebox (the so-called "power distribution box").
I'll check it as soon as I get home from work. Thanks Orca. Nothing is a distraction as this pickup is for my 16 yr old daughter. She wanted a ranger/mazda or an old chevy square and I said I would do all the work needed. SOOOO with that basically it's got to be 100%, I don't want to be responsible for her being left on the side of the road....
 

Shadowridr1

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I'll check it as soon as I get home from work. Thanks Orca. Nothing is a distraction as this pickup is for my 16 yr old daughter. She wanted a ranger/mazda or an old chevy square and I said I would do all the work needed. SOOOO with that basically it's got to be 100%, I don't want to be responsible for her being left on the side of the road....
Orca I checked the fuse, it was good. Any other ideas.
 


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