cluctch Master and slave cylinder bore size anyone?

[CoreyTilton]

does anyone know what the Stock bore size for a 1983 ranger hydraulic clutch Master Cylinder is, AND the stock bore size for the 83 hydraulic clucth Slave cylinder?

in 83 and 84 the slave cylinder was an External push type unit, similar to that found on many chevy/gm/pontiac cars (camaros, firebirds, ect) though the 80s and 90s.

i'm trying to find what the the STOCK bore size was for the master and slave.

can't find this info anywhere online.

thank you

- corey

 

[Bird76Mojo]

First Google search result: https://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144459



GB

 

[CoreyTilton]

First Google search result: https://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144459



GB

Many thanks for the link.
I was searching most of yesterday and never found that.

So reading that it sounds like most people think the master is a 3/4", even if somewhere have it listed as 7/8", when anybody orders one and it shows up, it's actually a 7/8". Ok.

I couldn't find in there an answer to the 83-84 external slave bore size though

 

[Mac]

Go to RockAuto for a couple listings of the slave size. One says .880" and another is 22mm (>866").
Dave

 

[Bird76Mojo]

With your last name I'm surprised you don't run the same slave that I do in my 87. lol

http://transmission.moderndriveline.com/speed/pc/Ford-T5-T-O-bearing-Tilton-6000-Slip-on-27p508.htm



GB

 

[CoreyTilton]

Go to RockAuto for a couple listings of the slave size. One says .880" and another is 22mm (>866").
Dave

Awesome thanks Dave!
So it sounds like we probably have a 7/8" equivalent bore slave.

Many thanks for that. I couldn't find bore sizes on any of the parts sites I was looking on

 

[CoreyTilton]

With your last name I'm surprised you don't run the same slave that I do in my 87. lol

http://transmission.moderndriveline.com/speed/pc/Ford-T5-T-O-bearing-Tilton-6000-Slip-on-27p508.htm



GB

Hahaha. Yeah I've been thinking of swapping my master for a Tilton or Wilwood unit. But I wanted to know what size stock is before buying an after market

 

[Bird76Mojo]

For what it's worth, the Tilton 6000 works great with my factory 1987 replacement clutch master cylinder.

However.. I can't recommend them due to the flat-face bearing they use is a proprietary design and they cost $50 each to replace. The bearing says "MADE IN CHINA" on it also. I had my first one fail in under 2500 miles.

Now, could it have been set up (depth) incorrectly? I doubt it considering I measured and verified a dozen times with a known accurate, digital depth caliper before/during the install. After removal I inspected the bearing and it was very notchy feeling and was visually dry of grease. No visual signs of overheating though and no burnt grease smell. The pressure plate fingers were all good. Nice and even. But I bought another bearing to try again.

This time I started completely over by removing and cleaning everything first. Then I set total depth and verified several times. I also installed a new Ford Racing billet steel flywheel, RAM clutch, and RAM pressure plate, along with a new Ford pilot bearing and Ford flywheel dowel pins. By using new parts I hope to isolate the problematic part. So far the new bearing has made it 2000 miles, but I tried my best to pack it full of grease before install, because it also felt a little "different" to me while turning it in my hand. It had that "not a quality bearing" type of feel to it. It's now starting to make a faint whine or whirling sound when pushing the clutch pedal in. Just frgn great! I contacted Tilton and they stated they're only an engineering company and I'd just have to buy a new bearing from one of their distributors.

So, I'll say it again. I CAN'T RECOMMEND TILTON 6000 SERIES HYDRAULIC RELEASE BEARINGS.

Which is a shame, because the unit is just a beautiful piece of billet artwork, and the lines are nicely made stainless AN that freely rotate for ease of installation.


Not trying to steal your thread, but I just wanted to share my experience thus far with my Tilton. Use at your own risk. In my opinion a clutch slave cylinder shouldn't have to be setup within a few thousandths of an inch. It should be built in a much more fool-proof manner, and durable enough to take a continuous load if necessary. Maybe using a conical bearing if possible..

Online reviewers seem happy with them, so maybe my case is an isolated incident, but I've been a mechanic/fabricator for over 25 years, so that doesn't seem likely.

I couldn't find a bearing like this anywhere else online. I looked in hopes of finding a known quality brand to replace this one and maybe save a few bucks. It's hard finding flat faced bearings like this. At least for me. So I paid the $50 and moved on..

http://tiltonracing.com/product/replacement-47-66mm-flat-face-bearing-kits/


GB

 

[CoreyTilton]

For what it's worth, the Tilton 6000 works great with my factory 1987 replacement clutch master cylinder.

However.. I can't recommend them due to the flat-face bearing they use is a proprietary design and they cost $50 each to replace. The bearing says "MADE IN CHINA" on it also. I had my first one fail in under 2500 miles.

Now, could it have been set up (depth) incorrectly? I doubt it considering I measured and verified a dozen times with a known accurate, digital depth caliper before/during the install. After removal I inspected the bearing and it was very notchy feeling and was visually dry of grease. No visual signs of overheating though and no burnt grease smell. The pressure plate fingers were all good. Nice and even. But I bought another bearing to try again.

This time I started completely over by removing and cleaning everything first. Then I set total depth and verified several times. I also installed a new Ford Racing billet steel flywheel, RAM clutch, and RAM pressure plate, along with a new Ford pilot bearing and Ford flywheel dowel pins. By using new parts I hope to isolate the problematic part. So far the new bearing has made it 2000 miles, but I tried my best to pack it full of grease before install, because it also felt a little "different" to me while turning it in my hand. It had that "not a quality bearing" type of feel to it. It's now starting to make a faint whine or whirling sound when pushing the clutch pedal in. Just frgn great! I contacted Tilton and they stated they're only an engineering company and I'd just have to buy a new bearing from one of their distributors.

So, I'll say it again. I CAN'T RECOMMEND TILTON 6000 SERIES HYDRAULIC RELEASE BEARINGS.

Which is a shame, because the unit is just a beautiful piece of billet artwork, and the lines are nicely made stainless AN that freely rotate for ease of installation.


Not trying to steal your thread, but I just wanted to share my experience thus far with my Tilton. Use at your own risk. In my opinion a clutch slave cylinder shouldn't have to be setup within a few thousandths of an inch. It should be built in a much more fool-proof manner, and durable enough to take a continuous load if necessary. Maybe using a conical bearing if possible..

Online reviewers seem happy with them, so maybe my case is an isolated incident, but I've been a mechanic/fabricator for over 25 years, so that doesn't seem likely.



GB

No worries. Always like hearing product reviews.


my ranger is a non-typical setup.
I have a 400hp crate 306 backed to a z-spec t5. I'm running a Spec brand aluminum flywheel and Spec brand stage 2 clutch/pressure plate.

I'm using an external hydraulic slave cylinder, actually off of a Camaro, and a later model ranger master cylinder.
I'm not getting enough throw out of the slave to fully disengage the stage 2 spec. I've cut and threaded the ranger master to give it as much stroke as possible, but I'm still just not getting enough travel on the slave.
The Camaro slave is a 1" bore.
So it looks like my master is too small a bore, and I wanted to know what size it was, vs what size the stock ranger slave was, so I can buy an after market master a little bit bigger.

Long story.
But yeah.
Thanks for the help guys.
Looks like I'm going to be trying to get my hands on a 1" bore master.... Probably a Wilwood, and an American Powertrain adjustable bracket to go to the firewall.

 

[Bird76Mojo]

You could try a longer pivot bolt. The SN95 bell housing is deeper, so I imagine the pivot bolt is longer as well. Not sure if it would correct your geometry problem or not though. I'm not a mathematician. lol https://fortesparts.com/index.php/product/clutch-fork-pivot-ball-ford-fox-sn95/


I really like this guy's setup. He moved the clutch arm's pivot quite a bit inward which may be just the ticket to get the additional throw you need. Looks to be relocated about an inch or so inward.. Excellent fab skills: https://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178788

Here's some pics from his build thread..

GB

 

[CoreyTilton]

You could try a longer pivot bolt. The SN95 bell housing is deeper, so I imagine the pivot bolt is longer as well. Not sure if it would correct your geometry problem or not though. I'm not a mathematician. lol https://fortesparts.com/index.php/product/clutch-fork-pivot-ball-ford-fox-sn95/


I really like this guy's setup. He moved the clutch arm's pivot quite a bit inward which may be just the ticket to get the additional throw you need. Looks to be relocated about an inch or so inward.. Excellent fab skills: https://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178788

Here's some pics from his build thread..

GB

Yeah, I'm pushing back from the front of the bell housing. Kind of a Chevy Camaro style. So the pivot ball is on the driver's side.
I'm also running an original foxbody bellhousing, 1990 I think, not an sn95. Running a 10 spline input z-spec setup for a 85-93 fox. The sn95 z-spec has a longer in shaft to match the longer bellhousing. I think that's why you can do a tko swap on 95 and up mustangs without any modifications. I could be wing though.
It's funny, I have Hayes manuals for this truck for both first gen ranger and foxbody mustangs, and I spend my time bunching back and forth between ranger and mustang forums.


Anyway, I think based on some info a few users have gave me I may have figured out my problem.
I'm running a 1" bore Chevy slave cylinder currently, and most likely a 3/4" bore ranger master. If I get a 1" bore after market I should get the stroke I need. Or, a 7/8" bore ranger master, and a 7/8" bore slave.

Either way, swapping out one or both of those should do the trick.

 

[Bird76Mojo]

The pivot bolt can't be on the drivers side in a Foxbody bellhousing. The pivot bolt is the fulcrum for the clutch fork, on the inside passenger side of the bell. The rounded pivot bolt that the clutch fork rides on.

I'm running a brand new front shift rear socket T5Z from Modern Driveline with a Foxbody bell, so I'm familiar with them. On mine, with the factory 87 master, I ended up with too much throw on the internal slave. I had to fabricate an adjustable clutch pedal stop to limit travel. If I can push enough fluid with the factory master to over-actuate a large piston concentric slave, then there's something odd going on with where you're applying leverage to the clutch fork (which would limit overall travel) or the passenger side of the clutch fork (that's riding on the pivot bolt) is too far forward or aft, because you should be able to push enough fluid to easily actuate a small external slave to it's full extended position with the factory master.

How square is your clutch fork to the front face of the bellhousing/trans? You want it as parallel to the bellhousing face as you can get it without applying a load to the pressure plate fingers via the throwout bearing. I'd want the drivers end of the clutch fork pointing ever so slightly towards the rear, but not much. The opposite is also true. If the clutch fork is angled forward on the drivers side too much then you need a longer pivot bolt on the passenger side, inside the bellhousing.

Also, how far from the end of the clutch fork is your slave pushing? In which "hole" on the fork? Because the outside hole is usually too far out towards the end and results in too little throw. At least in most troubleshooting cases I've seen.

I only mention all of this because I've seen it enough times online and tried my best to help them troubleshoot. Lots of guys are getting by just fine with factory clutch masters. I know a bunch have swapped too, but it's not that necessary if the clutch fork/throwout bearing is setup right, and you bought the right throw length slave cylinder.

Hopefully you don't have the throwout bearing UNDER the spring clip on the clutch fork.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=46&v=YKxNr5iYKO8


Is your slave cylinder hooked up to the outermost clutch fork hole like this cable unit?

Or is it hooked inboard of the innermost hole on the clutch fork like this setup?

Just trying to help.



GB

 

[CoreyTilton]

The pivot bolt can't be on the drivers side in a Foxbody bellhousing. The pivot bolt is the fulcrum for the clutch fork, on the inside passenger side of the bell. The rounded pivot bolt that the clutch fork rides on.

I'm running a brand new front shift rear socket T5Z from Modern Driveline with a Foxbody bell, so I'm familiar with them. On mine, with the factory 87 master, I ended up with too much throw on the internal slave. I had to fabricate an adjustable clutch pedal stop to limit travel. If I can push enough fluid with the factory master to over-actuate a large piston concentric slave, then there's something odd going on with where you're applying leverage to the clutch fork (which would limit overall travel) or the passenger side of the clutch fork (that's riding on the pivot bolt) is too far forward or aft, because you should be able to push enough fluid to easily actuate a small external slave to it's full extended position with the factory master.

How square is your clutch fork to the front face of the bellhousing/trans? You want it as parallel to the bellhousing face as you can get it without applying a load to the pressure plate fingers via the throwout bearing. I'd want the drivers end of the clutch fork pointing ever so slightly towards the rear, but not much. The opposite is also true. If the clutch fork is angled forward on the drivers side too much then you need a longer pivot bolt on the passenger side, inside the bellhousing.

Also, how far from the end of the clutch fork is your slave pushing? In which "hole" on the fork? Because the outside hole is usually too far out towards the end and results in too little throw. At least in most troubleshooting cases I've seen.

I only mention all of this because I've seen it enough times online and tried my best to help them troubleshoot. Lots of guys are getting by just fine with factory clutch masters. I know a bunch have swapped too, but it's not that necessary if the clutch fork/throwout bearing is setup right, and you bought the right throw length slave cylinder.

Hopefully you don't have the throwout bearing UNDER the spring clip on the clutch fork.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=46&v=YKxNr5iYKO8


Is your slave cylinder hooked up to the outermost clutch fork hole like this cable unit?

Or is it hooked inboard of the innermost hole on the clutch fork like this setup?

Just trying to help.



GB

It's a foxbody bellhousing with the pivot bokt on the driver's side. I don't know maybe it was custom tapped by a previous owner? But this bellhousing is setup to put the pivot bolt on either side of the input shaft. There's a threaded hole on each side. Looks stock.
So I have a bracket on the front of the bellhousing, where the slave pushes the fork back towards the rear of the car. The fork is an open face first generation ranger type.

I think the problem is the factory 83 ranger setup was a 7/8" slave, and a 7/8" master from the sounds of it.
I think I'm using a later model 3/4" ranger master, and a different brand 1" slave.

If that's the case I'm only getting 3/4 the amount for travel as I should be.
And I know mustang guys have said these stage 2 spec setups need a bit travel than a stock clutch and pressure plate. So I think matching my bore sizes should fix the problem.

Many thanks for all the info

 

[Bird76Mojo]

I'd like to see pictures of this odd setup.




GB

 

[CoreyTilton]

I'd like to see pictures of this odd setup.




GB

if the weather holds out i'll be crawling under it this weekend. i'll snap a few pictures while im under there.