• Welcome Visitor! Please take a few seconds and Register for our forum. Even if you don't want to post, you can still 'Like' and react to posts.

California on fire...


Bill

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
1,304
Reaction score
1,356
Location
Sacramento, CA
Vehicle Year
2007
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
2.3 (4 Cylinder)
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
This is some crazy shit. I hear about overgrown brush being a problem, the 117 million gallon reservoir in the middle of the palisades was closed for repairs, the LA fire chief said the city failed her. A lot of finger pointing going on. It's amazing that all of those multi-million dollar homes burned along the ocean front. Why don't we have spinkler systems that can use the oceans salt water?

It just seems crazy that in the world we live in today and with all the technolgy we have, LA isn't better prepared for a wild fire. I sute in the hell hope they learn from this.

We don't allow political rants, but I'm just going to say that between North Carolina and now this, I'd like to see my tax money spent here fixing this, not given to other countries.
The utilities are supposed to clear brush from under the power lines. This reduces the potential to ignite a fire, but doesn't eliminate it. I don't know what to say about the Santa Ynez Reservoir being closed for repairs other than it needed to be closed to replace a liner or a cover to maintain water quality. I tried to find out when the date of closure started, but couldn't find a date. This would be the best time of the year to close the reservoir because this is the time of the year that has the lowest fire risk, so I assume the repairs were scheduled during this time for that reason. Normally, the vegetation would have enough moisture to prevent these kinds of fires, and usually these winds aren't this severe in January. This is more of a October through eary December type thing in Southern California.

The homes and buildings catching on fire are the result of embers either igniting exterior wood or other flamable materials on the exterior of the buildings, or embers that are driven into the loft vents by the winds. When you have high winds it changes everything. The air is also very dry. Surfaces will dry out in minutes. Sprinklers aren't going to do much. Every major fire like this has had people out hosing down their homes minutes before the fire arrives. It's very rare that this tactic is successful. More often than not, people just end up abandoning their efforts and the house burns anyway. Also, using ocean water is kind of not very practical. Only a fraction of those homes are on the waterfront. Most of them are inland and uphill. A system to use water from the ocean would require a separate system to bring the water a mile or so uphill to all the homes. The real problem is that those homes (in Pacific Palisades) are in a high-risk area. There was also the issue of high wind preventing firefighting aircraft from flying.

What can be learned from this? Most of LA is somewhat flat or on uneven ground and has inner-cty and suburban neighborhoods just the same as Phoenix, Dallas, or other American cities. In some areas the more recent development has gone up the steep hillsides due to the absence of flat land that hasn't already been developed. I think the best thing that can be done is to make construction more fire-resistant. Several cities have already added fire-resistance to their building codes. The problem with this is older construction will have to be upgraded and there are probably a lot of homeowners who can't afford anything other than the most basic upgrades. There is a group of people with a mindset that would prohibit people from building homes in high-risk areas. My issue with that is property rights. This is where my libertarian side comes out. If you build there and live there, you need to accept the risks.

What bothers me is this IS being made a politcal issue. It's not political at all. It's not the result of water policies in California. The fish living in a delta 350 miles away from LA has nothing to do with it. We have had several good years of rainfall in California. So, the southern part of the state isn't experiencing any reduction in water allocations from the north. It doesn't matter what the background of the fire chief, city council members, or anyone else is, or any of the other things that have been repeated by people who want to make this political. It's a fire that was spread by high winds, up to 100 mph in some places, that occured while a reservoir is undergoing repairs at a time of the year when the fire risk is as low as it gets in that part of California. Sometimes bad things happen.
 

Rick W

Lil Big Rig
Supporting Member
Truck of Month
TRS Event Participant
TRS 25th Anniversary
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
3,466
Reaction score
6,224
Age
69
Location
Atlanta
Vehicle Year
1997 1987
Make / Model
Ranger XLT x2
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0 & 2.9
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
97 stock, 3” on 87
Total Drop
N/A
Tire Size
235/75-15
My credo
Never put off ‘til tomorrow what you can put off indefinitely
Having been through a tornado, and having disasters hit some of our investment property, I am brokenhearted for those affected, and I pray every day.

I agree with Jim that our government needs to go back to basics. Too many of people assume that law-enforcement is OK and fire protection is OK, etc. and that some of the new initiatives are “extras.” Obviously not the case in California.

I loved it when the housewife approached Governor Newsom when he was reviewing the disaster scene. That video went viral, but one thing wasn’t mentioned. He is the head knocker in charge, the top of the pyramid, the buck stops with him, but he had no cell service when the gal approached him. In charge of one of the largest economies in the world, and he couldn’t make a phone call.

Equally I loved it when the director of emergency response commented on the problems with the alert service to people‘s phones. If you look at the clip, and you think about it a second, what he said was that the system was working perfectly, but the messages couldn’t be transferred because the power was down and the Internet was down because of the fire. So what he said is the fire alert system won’t work because there’s a fire. It’s a custom system for LA, somebody made a lot of money on that, and it took one day for the state system to solve the problem, but nobody probably got rich on the state system.

I never followed up here, but we sent another two guys and two trucks to North Carolina between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Like before, we left one of the trucks with supplies with them. Granted, these were older trucks, but they worked fine. Everybody on this site understands that. We contacted the state when somebody complained about the New Jersey tags, and we immediately got permission to keep them tagged in New Jersey and insured from New Jersey for the time being. The local governments, police and fire in North Carolina have been fantastic, truly what you would want. Let’s just say it’s different in California.

EDIT: the red and blue boots on the ground are fantastic. My comment was about the leadership in those organizations.

The country folk in North Carolina, who were not insured, I don’t really mind if our taxes pay to set them straight on their $100,000 properties. However, I do have a problem if $10 million homes in California were not insured, and now they’re talking about paying to rebuild the $10 million homes from FEMA. If they didn’t have insurance, I feel for them, and I have no problem with FEMA and my taxes paying room and board to keep them off the streets. But nobody rebuilt my house when I got hit by a tornado, I protest rebuilding mansions with tax money for people who weren’t prepared.

I hope I’m not slammed because this is too “political.” I’m just reflecting what I’ve seen on the news….
 
Last edited:

Rick W

Lil Big Rig
Supporting Member
Truck of Month
TRS Event Participant
TRS 25th Anniversary
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
3,466
Reaction score
6,224
Age
69
Location
Atlanta
Vehicle Year
1997 1987
Make / Model
Ranger XLT x2
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0 & 2.9
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
97 stock, 3” on 87
Total Drop
N/A
Tire Size
235/75-15
My credo
Never put off ‘til tomorrow what you can put off indefinitely
One other thought. Citizens observed a transient guy on a bicycle with a propane torch, lighting Christmas trees and trash cans on fire. Four witnesses of four events, and the last one was actually videotaped. A citizen followed the guy after he called the police, but the police were spread a little thin. Then several other citizens joined with him and made a citizens arrest on the guy, detained him with zip ties, but did not beat him up or abuse him, which was also recorded.

The police came and took him into custody. Several hours later, he was released by the DA because they lacked “probable cause.“ Four people saw the guy set four fires, and the last one was videotaped. When the police were interviewed, you could tell that the officer who was explaining was totally embarrassed and disgusted.

Unbelievable…,
 

Bill

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
1,304
Reaction score
1,356
Location
Sacramento, CA
Vehicle Year
2007
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
2.3 (4 Cylinder)
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
I heard on the news a hobbyist drone took out one of the two scooper tanker planes. It won't be repaired until Monday.
And people wonder why there's a ton of rules and restrictions for flying drones. I think flying a drone in fire areas is a felony here. It may also be a felony at the Federal level.
 

Bill

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
1,304
Reaction score
1,356
Location
Sacramento, CA
Vehicle Year
2007
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
2.3 (4 Cylinder)
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
The country folk in North Carolina, who were not insured, I don’t really mind if our taxes pay to set them straight on their $100,000 properties. However, I do have a problem if $10 million homes in California were not insured, and now they’re talking about paying to rebuild the $10 million homes from FEMA. If they didn’t have insurance, I feel for them, and I have no problem with FEMA and my taxes paying room and board to keep them off the streets. But nobody rebuilt my house when I got hit by a tornado, I protest rebuilding mansions with tax money for people who weren’t prepared.

I hope I’m not slammed because this is too “political.” I’m just reflecting what I’ve seen on the news….
There should be a limit on assistance for home rebuilding. I'm not sure what that should be because home values are all over the place throughout the country. Those homes aren't $10m there. The upper end is about $5 to $6 million in Pacific Palisades. I think they run about $700K in Altadena. Most of them have insurance policies in effect til 2026. I really don't care about the $5M homes. Those people have so much money that this is just a minor inconvenience for them. But, back the insurance problem. People have had their policies canceled, not just here, but throughout the country. In parts of California and Florida some people weren't able to obtain replacement insurance policies. California started a program for people who have run into this issue. I don't know what is going on with that in Florida. It's certain that the insurance issue is going to get worse after the hurricane in Florida and the recent fires in LA because it's certain that there's going to be another hurricane to hit Florida and more fires in California. So, I don't know what the answer is.

Be careful about what you hear on the news. It just seems to me that theres a lot of misinformation being spread to get people all riled up about any event that occurs.
 

Rick W

Lil Big Rig
Supporting Member
Truck of Month
TRS Event Participant
TRS 25th Anniversary
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
3,466
Reaction score
6,224
Age
69
Location
Atlanta
Vehicle Year
1997 1987
Make / Model
Ranger XLT x2
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0 & 2.9
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
97 stock, 3” on 87
Total Drop
N/A
Tire Size
235/75-15
My credo
Never put off ‘til tomorrow what you can put off indefinitely
Understood, but there are two distinct differences between Florida and California on the insurance issue.

The insurance companies are pretty good about evaluating risk, buying reinsurance for catastrophic events, and pricing accordingly. That is why the rates have risen in Florida and some people have pulled out. I’m not positive, but I believe there is a high risk pool that people can buy into if insurance company refuses to ensure that. It’s like drivers insurance for people who have DUIs and can’t get regular coverage.

That’s not the case in California. The calamities caused the rise in premiums, which is just a fact of the insurance industry. They have to maintain a large enough base to be able to pay out individual claims.

The government in California arbitrarily capped what insurance companies can collected in premiums, and restricted the insurance companies from passing on the cost of reinsurance to the individual insured properties. It was an arbitrary cost cut for the people that made no sense economically. Those government restrictions are why insurance companies are pulling out of California.

and one last thought, when I talk about $10 million homes, or you talk about $700,000 homes, typically, the land is a significant portion of the value of the property. My numbers are talking about the cost to rebuild the structures, I don’t think I made that clear. if there are half a dozen people living in a house, they should have comfortable accommodation, maybe a rented apartment, and food and gas for their cars, but I will never agree to rebuild even a $700,000 structure from tax money for someone who did not have insurance whether it was the government’s fault or not. I’m not only feel this way, I have been down the road several times on both sides of the issue.
 

Bill

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
1,304
Reaction score
1,356
Location
Sacramento, CA
Vehicle Year
2007
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
2.3 (4 Cylinder)
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
2WD
and one last thought, when I talk about $10 million homes, or you talk about $700,000 homes, typically, the land is a significant portion of the value of the property. My numbers are talking about the cost to rebuild the structures, I don’t think I made that clear. if there are half a dozen people living in a house, they should have comfortable accommodation, maybe a rented apartment, and food and gas for their cars, but I will never agree to rebuild even a $700,000 structure from tax money for someone who did not have insurance whether it was the government’s fault or not. I’m not only feel this way, I have been down the road several times on both sides of the issue.
I've been through that area. Most of those homes are just really large with fancy facades. Few of them would cost $10M, or even $3M to rebuild unless they were importing exotic construction materials from Italy. But, I have a problem with paying the cost to rebuild something that is that excessive. In the case of Altadena, by regional standards, $700K isn't excessive. It is probable some of the least expensive housing in that area. It isn't really a high risk area for distasters. Many of them are the type of suburban homes you see in neighborhoods build up in the 1930's. As far as assistance goes, using pricing in one location of the country to base disaster assistance on the rest of the country is just problematic. Larger metro areas have more expensive housing. Most rural areas have less expensive housing. Construction and labor costs vary across the country too, which has an impact of the cost to rebuild. And without making market adjustments you potentially run into problems on the cheap end of the scale wherein someone will claim there's no justification to spend $100K to rebuild a house in a small rural town where the houses are worth half that price. What I do have a problem with is taxpayer money for rebuilding homes is rediculous places like beach front property that has to be rebuilt after every hurricane or people who have houses built where landslides, fires, or flash floods are known to happen periodically. And yes, people should have insurance, but it isn't alwasy that simple due to not only costs, but insurance companies canceling polices after they fly a drone over the house and see that someone is working on a project car in the backyard.

The insurance companies absolutely raise rates on individual properties here. They have to have a risk assesment to do so. I know people who have had rates quadruple over the last five years due to the fire risk where they are living. What they can't do is raise the rates on people living in a low fire risk area like Modesto because they have written policies in Pacific Palisades to make up the difference. I think that is fair. The people who want to live in a location that is at high risk for a natural disaster should pay the high rates and not expect people who live in a sensible location to subsidize their lifestyle.

But, aside from all that, some deep though needs to be done about disasters are going to be handled if they keep getting worse instead of pointing fingers and saying there should have been a plan because some of the recent events were unforeseen. Nobody would have thought suburbs in Pasadena and Altadena would burn like that, or Helene would have caused the amound of flooding it did. Just get the assistance the people need to them and learn from the experiences so there's less negative impacts from similar events in the future.
 

Jim Oaks

Just some guy with a website
Administrator
Founder / Site Owner
Supporting Vendor
Article Contributor
TRS Banner 2010-2011
TRS Banner 2012-2015
TRS 20th Anniversary
VAGABOND
TRS Event Participant
GMRS Radio License
TRS 25th Anniversary
Joined
Aug 2, 2000
Messages
14,413
Reaction score
11,382
Location
Nocona, Texas
Vehicle Year
1996 / 2021
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0 / 2.3 Ecoboost
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
6-inches
Tire Size
33x12.50x15
I have a feeling we're all going to eventually feel this through our insurance companies.
 

Rick W

Lil Big Rig
Supporting Member
Truck of Month
TRS Event Participant
TRS 25th Anniversary
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
3,466
Reaction score
6,224
Age
69
Location
Atlanta
Vehicle Year
1997 1987
Make / Model
Ranger XLT x2
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0 & 2.9
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
97 stock, 3” on 87
Total Drop
N/A
Tire Size
235/75-15
My credo
Never put off ‘til tomorrow what you can put off indefinitely
I've been through that area. Most of those homes are just really large with fancy facades. Few of them would cost $10M, or even $3M to rebuild unless they were importing exotic construction materials from Italy. But, I have a problem with paying the cost to rebuild something that is that excessive. In the case of Altadena, by regional standards, $700K isn't excessive. It is probable some of the least expensive housing in that area. It isn't really a high risk area for distasters. Many of them are the type of suburban homes you see in neighborhoods build up in the 1930's. As far as assistance goes, using pricing in one location of the country to base disaster assistance on the rest of the country is just problematic. Larger metro areas have more expensive housing. Most rural areas have less expensive housing. Construction and labor costs vary across the country too, which has an impact of the cost to rebuild. And without making market adjustments you potentially run into problems on the cheap end of the scale wherein someone will claim there's no justification to spend $100K to rebuild a house in a small rural town where the houses are worth half that price. What I do have a problem with is taxpayer money for rebuilding homes is rediculous places like beach front property that has to be rebuilt after every hurricane or people who have houses built where landslides, fires, or flash floods are known to happen periodically. And yes, people should have insurance, but it isn't alwasy that simple due to not only costs, but insurance companies canceling polices after they fly a drone over the house and see that someone is working on a project car in the backyard.

The insurance companies absolutely raise rates on individual properties here. They have to have a risk assesment to do so. I know people who have had rates quadruple over the last five years due to the fire risk where they are living. What they can't do is raise the rates on people living in a low fire risk area like Modesto because they have written policies in Pacific Palisades to make up the difference. I think that is fair. The people who want to live in a location that is at high risk for a natural disaster should pay the high rates and not expect people who live in a sensible location to subsidize their lifestyle.

But, aside from all that, some deep though needs to be done about disasters are going to be handled if they keep getting worse instead of pointing fingers and saying there should have been a plan because some of the recent events were unforeseen. Nobody would have thought suburbs in Pasadena and Altadena would burn like that, or Helene would have caused the amound of flooding it did. Just get the assistance the people need to them and learn from the experiences so there's less negative impacts from similar events in the future.
I agree with you in concept, but not necessarily an application. There’s an awful lot of stuff I would’ve liked to have in places I would’ve liked to live in my life, but I made responsible choices so I always had financial security.

Again, we need to focus on reconstruction cost, and not the value of the plot, value of the land. Regardless of what the insurance companies are doing, etc. if people couldn’t afford the insurance in tha location where they were living, maybe they should’ve moved to a less expensive area where they could afford the insurance and live responsibly. I know that sounds very cold hearted when the disaster is still ongoing, but these people placed themselves in a position to experience disasters that were predictable, and elected people who had other priorities.

My heart really breaks for them, even any of them who may have made poor choices, but I am adamantly against the government doing more than providing them shelter and food and basic needs while they figure out what they’re going to do. They can sell that expensive land and use the money to build a house they can afford in a less prestigious location. Life happens.

I was thinking about all this, hadn’t thought about it a whole lot since my house got hit in the tornado in 98, but when I got FEMA assistance, it was in the form of SBA loans that had to be paid back. They were 3% loans when the going rate was about 8%, but they still needed to be paid back. That tempered how I built back. And I did have insurance money, but insurance doesn’t cover everything. I wouldn’t be involved in this discussion if we were talking about the government lending money to rebuild instead of handing out cash with no strings.

The one thing I agree with 1000% is allowing arrogant people to build in stupid places. On the north side of Long Island out on the Eastern tip, people are actually allowed to build houses standing in the water by the beach. When I was working up there around 1990, I remember sitting in a Suffolk County planning/zoning meeting where people were talking/laughing about how they’re going to change the design and what they’re going to build next, the next time it gets washed away. The homes they were talking about were built with flood insurance money about three years before I was sitting there. I was there for some road issues, but it was all I could do to not scream out loud!!!

We’ve got a $34 trillion debt right now because everybody is throwing around OPM. It can’t last forever.
 
Last edited:

racsan

Well-Known Member
TRS 20th Anniversary
TRS Event Participant
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
5,361
Reaction score
5,640
Location
central ohio
Vehicle Year
2009
Make / Model
ford/escape
Engine Type
2.5 (4 Cylinder)
Engine Size
2.5/151 I-4
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Tire Size
235/70/16
My credo
the grey-t escape
I know my auto insurance has gone up twice in this past year for no reason, I even have a newer vehicle now with crap like traction control & airbags but not so new that its worth major money (94 ranger vs 09 escape )
 

MaicoDoug

Well-Known Member
U.S. Military - Veteran
Ham Radio Operator
GMRS Radio License
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
654
Reaction score
555
Location
Texas
Vehicle Year
2007
Make / Model
Ranger FX4 LVL2
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
2 inches in the back, not enough in the front
Tire Size
32x11.5x15
I lived in Chatsworth for many years. The San Fernando valley hills burn every year. Nothing new, and mostly it was arson. Now with the new china supplied incendiary devices (20 ways to lite your BBQ) available at your local store, and UAVs dropping drugs & other stuff, it's easy to terrorize the countryside. Typical of when politics gets what it deserves, the crybabies act, out and we all suffer.

The whole area is (was) out of water. That is the LA lifestyle,...out of water.
 
Last edited:

19Walt93

Well-Known Member
Ford Technician
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
4,879
Reaction score
4,932
Location
Canaan,NH
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
351
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Total Drop
3"
Tire Size
235/55R16
My credo
If you don't have time to do it right will you have time to do it over?
Many of the past wildfires were deliberately set. I wonder how many of those burning now were also arson. We're not hearing anything on how these fires originated.
Bernie Sanders blamed climate change but the California cops have arrested at least one man for arson.
 

Rick W

Lil Big Rig
Supporting Member
Truck of Month
TRS Event Participant
TRS 25th Anniversary
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
3,466
Reaction score
6,224
Age
69
Location
Atlanta
Vehicle Year
1997 1987
Make / Model
Ranger XLT x2
Engine Type
4.0 V6
Engine Size
4.0 & 2.9
Transmission
Manual
2WD / 4WD
4WD
Total Lift
97 stock, 3” on 87
Total Drop
N/A
Tire Size
235/75-15
My credo
Never put off ‘til tomorrow what you can put off indefinitely
But he was a good guy who was just driven nuts by the heat from global warming…
 

19Walt93

Well-Known Member
Ford Technician
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
4,879
Reaction score
4,932
Location
Canaan,NH
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
351
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Total Drop
3"
Tire Size
235/55R16
My credo
If you don't have time to do it right will you have time to do it over?
But he was a good guy who was just driven nuts by the heat from global warming…
You can't mean Bernie, he's been a fruit loop forever.
 

snoranger

Professional money waster
TRS Event Staff
TRS Forum Moderator
Supporting Member
Article Contributor
RBV's on Boost
ASE Certified Tech
VAGABOND
TRS Event Participant
GMRS Radio License
TRS 25th Anniversary
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
13,549
Reaction score
15,130
Location
Jackson, NJ. And Manahawkin too.
Vehicle Year
'79,'94,'02,'23
Make / Model
All Fords
Engine Type
2.3 EcoBoost
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
My credo
I didn't ask for your life story, just answer the question!
I have a feeling we're all going to eventually feel this through our insurance companies.
There’s no doubt about that. The insurance companies aren’t going to lose money… at the end of the day they’ve got CEOs and investors to make richer.
 

Similar threads


Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad

Staff online

Members online

Today's birthdays

TRS Events

Member & Vendor Upgrades

For a small yearly donation, you can support this forum and receive a 'Supporting Member' banner, or become a 'Supporting Vendor' and promote your products here. Click the banner to find out how.

Latest posts

Truck of The Year


Kirby N.
2024 Truck of The Year!

Recently Featured

Want to see your truck here? Share your photos and details in the forum.

Vagabond Video

TRS Merchandise

Follow TRS On Instagram

TRS Sponsors


Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad


Amazon Deals

Sponsored Ad

Top