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Be careful when ordering torque monster headers!!


19Walt93

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yeah....i agree. run the scott drake k codes and deal with any motor mount issues as needed.....and redirect the steering a bit as needed.. they will not outperform the mid tubes at x....but they support and allow you to make more power then a p head is putting out.



My truck had the rag joint at the top of the lower steering shaft and it would have rubbed on the manifold. I replaced it with a Borgeson universal joint. I didn't have any problem with the mounts. Unless you're going for top end hp, I don't think headers will gain you anything but noise.
My Mustang had Dynomax long tube headers and 2 1/4 dual exhaust with 11" long turbo mufflers and 12" glass packs as resonators. It would turn 13.8@ 102 at New England Dragway. I spent a day with my die grinder opening up the restrictive stock Mustang II exahust manifolds to fit the GT40 heads. I also ground the outlets from the stock 13/4 to 2", then I cut a stock Y pipe and used 2 1/2 for the outlet and rest of the single system.
It doesn't run any different. The engine doesn't care how many exhaust pipes you have, it only cares about flow. A 2 1/2 single system flows more than a 2" dual system like the one used on a 390 Mustang.
 


mikkelstuff

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Depends on the engine - larger exhaust pipes are not always better.

Once owning an Audi engined "pocket rocket" VW Rabbit, I had a larger exhaust installed thinking larger was better. Killed the performance.

Turns out with a lot of intake/exhaust valve overlap some exhaust restriction is needed. Otherwise the cylinder loses unburned air/fuel mix out the exhaust.
 

bobbywalter

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My truck had the rag joint at the top of the lower steering shaft and it would have rubbed on the manifold. I replaced it with a Borgeson universal joint. I didn't have any problem with the mounts. Unless you're going for top end hp, I don't think headers will gain you anything but noise.
My Mustang had Dynomax long tube headers and 2 1/4 dual exhaust with 11" long turbo mufflers and 12" glass packs as resonators. It would turn 13.8@ 102 at New England Dragway. I spent a day with my die grinder opening up the restrictive stock Mustang II exahust manifolds to fit the GT40 heads. I also ground the outlets from the stock 13/4 to 2", then I cut a stock Y pipe and used 2 1/2 for the outlet and rest of the single system.
It doesn't run any different. The engine doesn't care how many exhaust pipes you have, it only cares about flow. A 2 1/2 single system flows more than a 2" dual system like the one used on a 390 Mustang.
:unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

headers ....is too open....good headers will always make more power..


i prefer dynomax straight thru welded mufflers myself...as they have proven the best bang for the buck on almost everything i have ever worked on.

i preferred the flo pros over the flomasters for cost verse abuse they will take for off road rigs....if you like to trail ride and drag your chassis on stuff...they made more sense...

on your mustang...not knowing your actual HCI scenario.... i would wager if you threw away the turbo mufflers and the glass packs and ran offset dynomax straight thru mufflers you would have ran 13.20 or better with some tuning and maybe cracked 12,s if there was enough timing left in that cam scenario...unless that is what you are calling turbo mufflers. the actual turbo mufflers i have seen are garbage....from the 70's 80's and 90's...but they sounded cool. i assume these are what you had.

i would need more data. heads actual, cam actual, and intake actual,....the intake and exhaust side and valve events will dictate ideal pulse flow. even then....you need to play with the actual exhaust to get the best numbers. in theory no exhaust makes the most power...but thats not always the case as the power pulse in unioned with the power pulse out is the key factor...

we have built many N/A engines that exceed 100 percent v/e and some 116 percent volumetric efficiency....moving the exhaust x pipe point 3 inches or the muffler 3 inches affected that.....wildly.

generally the relationship from a flow rate, flow velocity, and pipe diameter is a well used formula. i could be wrong.....but i seem to remember as a constant...two 2 inch id pipes will out flow one 2.5 inch pipe....in velocity....but not even close to a 3 inch. it was very touchy and almost an exponant....

when you move up from there is gets more radical. the 3 inch was good for over 400 hp and a 3.5 600. two 2 inch would seem to equal a 4 inch just looking at it to the average cave pig, but its not even close....but they will outflow a single 2.5 on the math iirc. regardless it is simply not the whole story.... actual construction is key overall.

there is indeed a case... and like you, i would argue the general outcome where a single 2.5 all things being equal, will definitely out power-curve and outrun two 2 inch pipes.. based on a 300 hp engine. happens every day. even know the cross sectional math says the two 2 inch pipes have more flow capacity.


and this is the case for a typical explorer swap into a sla chassis ranger. there is 80 horsepower locked up in the cam and valvetrain and exhaust of that engine. and these exhaust manifolds can handle that. like what i suspect you allude to...it will quiet the underhood noise, and for a daily driver bolt in swap i would cera-kote them and move on.

of course it would all have to be free if i were working on a ttb chassis....because i would never spend money on that over swapping in a LS platform where for usually a third to half the cost i get a 100 more hp and the same or better fuel economy.

i started putting v8s in rangers in the 80's and for a gen one and even a sla, adding a u joint is a given.... but for different goals and reasons.

in the mid 90s i built...and help build 3 trucks at the same time one of them mine.... two were efi gt40 302 and one was a carb ho 351.

the only difference initially between the 302 trucks was body lift and exhaust. the single 3 inch exhaust would blow the tires off from a dead stop....my true dual 2.5 in exhaust would not....my best was a 14.20 and the single was able to crack 13's .... on the hiway i could pull from a 60 roll no problem....from a dead dig i was screwed. very illuminating. efi was still not a common swap but i was seasoned by then(1995) but...even to this day, while i do tune....i am not a true tuner of it...i had alot of help though for the time period back then.


we started out with the long tubes of course due to the type of engines which were high performance at the time....and the swap "kits". the typical flat flange gasket garbage headers and "turbo mufflers" or flomaster crap.... biggest issue with restrictive exhaust is heat under load. so if your using the truck hard doing truck stuff.... heat rejection becomes a issue. especially driving 2-4 hours a day one way... the engine makes much more heat..... and if you have headers...this is really apparent...i learned alot of shit the hard way....i did not like electric fans and refused to use them initially....but i loved efi for offroading...i was trying to force what i thought was best to work....eventually i let the dyno, mpg and temperatures and parts replacement decide what worked for the application.


my chassis has been through all of those iterations.

ranger long tube frame mod  with cobra R.jpg
cobra R drivers side with steering joint.jpg
cobra R drivers side outlet side.jpg



those 351 cobra R headers work really well and were made under a different number for some time....which i found out recently.

but k code stuff is much better then granada and will accommodate p heads....


to me its the simple option unless your going for over 380 wheel.

i was hoping to find pics of redirect for sla but so far not.....these pics i found trying to get some together for the ugly truck thing....


at the end of the day...screw those obx headers if your just wanting to go....get the k codes and make em fit or the normal shorty ranger headers and redirect the steering.

get out and drive what you have.
 

19Walt93

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:unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

headers ....is too open....good headers will always make more power..


i prefer dynomax straight thru welded mufflers myself...as they have proven the best bang for the buck on almost everything i have ever worked on.

i preferred the flo pros over the flomasters for cost verse abuse they will take for off road rigs....if you like to trail ride and drag your chassis on stuff...they made more sense...

on your mustang...not knowing your actual HCI scenario.... i would wager if you threw away the turbo mufflers and the glass packs and ran offset dynomax straight thru mufflers you would have ran 13.20 or better with some tuning and maybe cracked 12,s if there was enough timing left in that cam scenario...unless that is what you are calling turbo mufflers. the actual turbo mufflers i have seen are garbage....from the 70's 80's and 90's...but they sounded cool. i assume these are what you had.

i would need more data. heads actual, cam actual, and intake actual,....the intake and exhaust side and valve events will dictate ideal pulse flow. even then....you need to play with the actual exhaust to get the best numbers. in theory no exhaust makes the most power...but thats not always the case as the power pulse in unioned with the power pulse out is the key factor...

we have built many N/A engines that exceed 100 percent v/e and some 116 percent volumetric efficiency....moving the exhaust x pipe point 3 inches or the muffler 3 inches affected that.....wildly.

generally the relationship from a flow rate, flow velocity, and pipe diameter is a well used formula. i could be wrong.....but i seem to remember as a constant...two 2 inch id pipes will out flow one 2.5 inch pipe....in velocity....but not even close to a 3 inch. it was very touchy and almost an exponant....

when you move up from there is gets more radical. the 3 inch was good for over 400 hp and a 3.5 600. two 2 inch would seem to equal a 4 inch just looking at it to the average cave pig, but its not even close....but they will outflow a single 2.5 on the math iirc. regardless it is simply not the whole story.... actual construction is key overall.

there is indeed a case... and like you, i would argue the general outcome where a single 2.5 all things being equal, will definitely out power-curve and outrun two 2 inch pipes.. based on a 300 hp engine. happens every day. even know the cross sectional math says the two 2 inch pipes have more flow capacity.


and this is the case for a typical explorer swap into a sla chassis ranger. there is 80 horsepower locked up in the cam and valvetrain and exhaust of that engine. and these exhaust manifolds can handle that. like what i suspect you allude to...it will quiet the underhood noise, and for a daily driver bolt in swap i would cera-kote them and move on.

of course it would all have to be free if i were working on a ttb chassis....because i would never spend money on that over swapping in a LS platform where for usually a third to half the cost i get a 100 more hp and the same or better fuel economy.

i started putting v8s in rangers in the 80's and for a gen one and even a sla, adding a u joint is a given.... but for different goals and reasons.

in the mid 90s i built...and help build 3 trucks at the same time one of them mine.... two were efi gt40 302 and one was a carb ho 351.

the only difference initially between the 302 trucks was body lift and exhaust. the single 3 inch exhaust would blow the tires off from a dead stop....my true dual 2.5 in exhaust would not....my best was a 14.20 and the single was able to crack 13's .... on the hiway i could pull from a 60 roll no problem....from a dead dig i was screwed. very illuminating. efi was still not a common swap but i was seasoned by then(1995) but...even to this day, while i do tune....i am not a true tuner of it...i had alot of help though for the time period back then.


we started out with the long tubes of course due to the type of engines which were high performance at the time....and the swap "kits". the typical flat flange gasket garbage headers and "turbo mufflers" or flomaster crap.... biggest issue with restrictive exhaust is heat under load. so if your using the truck hard doing truck stuff.... heat rejection becomes a issue. especially driving 2-4 hours a day one way... the engine makes much more heat..... and if you have headers...this is really apparent...i learned alot of shit the hard way....i did not like electric fans and refused to use them initially....but i loved efi for offroading...i was trying to force what i thought was best to work....eventually i let the dyno, mpg and temperatures and parts replacement decide what worked for the application.


my chassis has been through all of those iterations.

View attachment 104325View attachment 104326View attachment 104327


those 351 cobra R headers work really well and were made under a different number for some time....which i found out recently.

but k code stuff is much better then granada and will accommodate p heads....


to me its the simple option unless your going for over 380 wheel.

i was hoping to find pics of redirect for sla but so far not.....these pics i found trying to get some together for the ugly truck thing....


at the end of the day...screw those obx headers if your just wanting to go....get the k codes and make em fit or the normal shorty ranger headers and redirect the steering.

get out and drive what you have.
Ever look under a Mustang II? There's little room for exhaust. The original exhaust is a single 1 3/4 with a cat, a resonator, and a muffler. The 75-6 cars had dual exhaust all the way back, 2 resonators, and dual tailpipes with the left side crossong over to feed the right side located main muffler. My 2 1/4 system followed that line and I wasn't happy having the left tailpipe so close to the gas tank, even though I built a heat shield for it.
A stock 77 Mustang 302 would turn 17.7 @ 78mpg according to magazine tests. The Jimmy Carter years were tough times for cars as well as the economy.
I drag raced for around 20 years, I'd love to see the muffler that could gain me 6 tenths.
What does "headers is too open mean"?
 

JoshT

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What does "headers is too open mean"?
Too big of a variety of headers. Different styles/types/etc will have different results in different scenarios. Can't lump all headers under the common term like that and say no good.

At least that's what I read from it.
 

bobbywalter

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i love pintos....and have v8 swapped them.....very familiar with what needs reworked.



130 hp mustang 2 is just that.

if your in 13s your in 280-300 hp territory.

and i would bet the restriction i have seen with certain turbo mufflers depending on actual vintage and manufacturer because some of the old ones were horriffic... with flutes facing the wrong way and resonators.....you would unleash some power not simply due to flow...but also due to the timing and fuel not able to be applied with that setup if it was a typical 70s situation..

1/2 second....maybe not....but i know there is a scenario for it. without knowing the specifics its a roll. but maybe the same.

even if its a 10th and 1 mph....which there will be a gain.. it will be a gain.

..whether or not its worth the likely drone under max tune is for sure a worthy debate.


put another way....i have seen mph and et drops replacing stock mufflers with glass packs... in several different applications and drops with open exhaust.
 

19Walt93

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i love pintos....and have v8 swapped them.....very familiar with what needs reworked.



130 hp mustang 2 is just that.

if your in 13s your in 280-300 hp territory.

and i would bet the restriction i have seen with certain turbo mufflers depending on actual vintage and manufacturer because some of the old ones were horriffic... with flutes facing the wrong way and resonators.....you would unleash some power not simply due to flow...but also due to the timing and fuel not able to be applied with that setup if it was a typical 70s situation..

1/2 second....maybe not....but i know there is a scenario for it. without knowing the specifics its a roll. but maybe the same.

even if its a 10th and 1 mph....which there will be a gain.. it will be a gain.

..whether or not its worth the likely drone under max tune is for sure a worthy debate.


put another way....i have seen mph and et drops replacing stock mufflers with glass packs... in several different applications and drops with open exhaust.
You're hp figure underestimates how heavy Mustang II's are, mine weighs 3320 lbs with me in it on the scales at New England Dragway. My times were no doubt hurt by racing on street tires but the track is 90 miles away and real cars don't ride on trailers. I'd launch at idle and roll into the throttle, then shift to 2nd before I got to the floor because I was out of RPM. The mufflers are Dynomax Super Turbos, not cheapies and were picked based on prior experience and the fact that nothing else would fit and look professional. The 2 glass packs muted the roar and lived where the factory muffler was.
 

99rangert

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personally I would just wait for them because i feel like it’s next to impossible to get my money back. At least you will have something for the 1000$ you spent.
Rampshit did you get your headers, response, or money back yet from Bob?
 

SkootR

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I am in the same boat, waiting on parts. I ordered back in June 23. Spoke to bob on the phone in November. Was allegedly #8 in line. Still no headers and haven’t been able to get a response via phone call, text, or email..
 

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