• Welcome Visitor! Please take a few seconds and Register for our forum. Even if you don't want to post, you can still 'Like' and react to posts.

AR Pistol thoughts?


RollinWOT

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
962
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Cochise County
Vehicle Year
1998/2015
Make / Model
Ford/Kia
Engine Size
3.0L Vulcan/GDI 2.0L
Transmission
Manual
A while back I built a 16" Franken-Carbine from an Anderson stripped lower, DPMS parts kit, Brownell's NiB M16 BCG, Aero Precision charging handle, OutdoorSportsUSA mil-spec carbine extension kit, and a complete Anderson barreled flattop upper. Since my lady can't handle "big-bore" like an AK, I built that for her, and since have wanted to build an AR pistol as a "get-home" type of gun. I currently have an Aero Precision M4E1 stripped lower, Bushmaster parts kit, and an OutdoorSportsUSA pistol buffer tube kit that I put together with a 180* sling loop end plate. Still need an upper, BCG, and CH, but I will be ordering a 10.5" pistol length upper(carbine gas system) very soon. Has anyone used a 10.5" upper, and can you give recommendations to buffer weights? From what I understand, the mil-spec carbine buffer works fine, but if ther system is overgassed, switching to a H1 or H2 buffer works better? Cheers:beer:
 


Rock Auto 5% Discount Code: 7FA902352B4C01: April 5th, 2021

JoshT

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
TRS Banner 2012-2015
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
2,544
Reaction score
57
Points
48
Location
Macon/Fort Valley, GA
Vehicle Year
1999
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
4.0L
Transmission
Automatic
Got a 10.5" upper from Karri's guns a few years ago. Just bought it for a fun gun, but it works well. I cant recall for sure what gas system it runs, but is probably carbine length. It ran fine with the carbine buffer and PSA pistol buffer tube. It now runs on a Vltor A5 buffer system with their pistol tube, my rifles and SBR all run A5 system and wanted to keep it the same.

Check out Palmetto State Armory. They have been running sales on 10.5" complete uppers for Father's day with good prices. Good prices and good parts. I've even bought some of their blemish stuff, but have never found the actual blemish on them. I'd be buying one right now myself if I didn't have other stuff to work on. Want another 10.5" upper to house my CMMG 22lr conversion kit, and could use the BCG and Charging handle for a 12.5" 6.8 upper I'm piecing together.

If it ends up overgassed I'd go with an adjustable gas block instead of a heavy buffer. In fact I will probably never build another upper without one.

Said previously my 10.5 is for having fun at the range. I doubt I would pick an AR pistol for a "get-home" gun, SBR maybe, but that opens up a whole different set of issues. I think I'd rather have a standard pistol with more ammo and try to avoid the fight. To each his own.
 
Last edited:

RollinWOT

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
962
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Cochise County
Vehicle Year
1998/2015
Make / Model
Ford/Kia
Engine Size
3.0L Vulcan/GDI 2.0L
Transmission
Manual
Check out Palmetto State Armory. They have been running sales on 10.5" complete uppers for Father's day with good prices.

I doubt I would pick an AR pistol for a "get-home" gun, SBR maybe, but that opens up a whole different set of issues. I think I'd rather have a standard pistol with more ammo and try to avoid the fight. To each his own.
Actually I'm picking one up from PSA tomorrow, funny you should mention that.

The only reasons I'm going with the AR pistol are:

1)I drive 120 miles round trip through some rough country, so I want something with a little more punch than just my CCW and backup gun.

2)SBR opens up a whole can of worms I'm not interested in dealing with, so I will just run an SB brace

3)Parts compatibility, ARs are everywhere

I'd actually prefer something like a Micro Draco, but costs and weight are main considerations for me, so I was able to build the AR over a while without having the one-time initial gut-punch fee of a Draco, plus 7.62 weighs a lot over the long run. 4 mags of 5.56 shouldn't set me back too much as far as weight goes. But that, a Glock 26, and an LCP are good fighting chances I think. I don't anticipate ever needing to use them, but should the need arise, I will be happy to have them.
 

JoshT

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
TRS Banner 2012-2015
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
2,544
Reaction score
57
Points
48
Location
Macon/Fort Valley, GA
Vehicle Year
1999
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
4.0L
Transmission
Automatic
I think you will be happy with that PSA. Don't know.what you have or like for a trigger, but the PSA EPT trigger is also a good basis for a very decent budget trigger. Combine the EPT trigger with JP reduced reliability (very missleading name) springs and trigger set screw mod. Give you about a 3# trigger pull that breaks clean with little travel.

1) don't know what kind of rough country you are dealing with, but might want to consider an alternative caliber that has a little better performance out of short barrels. Not suggesting 300 BO here, but there are other calibers that are more suited to short barrels and stopping threats. If you stick with 5.56/.223 do plenty of research on ammo performance out of a short barrel.

2) I understand what you mean about SBRs, got one and want another. Brace may be a good set up, I've never used one. I know what the current rulings say, but remember that can change at any time. Not trying to discourage using a brace, just saying be careful and stay current on the rules concerning it.

3) Understood, but if that's the way you are thinking, might want to consider building a spare parts kit to keep with it.
 

RollinWOT

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
962
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Cochise County
Vehicle Year
1998/2015
Make / Model
Ford/Kia
Engine Size
3.0L Vulcan/GDI 2.0L
Transmission
Manual
1) don't know what kind of rough country you are dealing with, but might want to consider an alternative caliber that has a little better performance out of short barrels. Not suggesting 300 BO here, but there are other calibers that are more suited to short barrels and stopping threats. If you stick with 5.56/.223 do plenty of research on ammo performance out of a short barrel.

2) I understand what you mean about SBRs, got one and want another. Brace may be a good set up, I've never used one. I know what the current rulings say, but remember that can change at any time. Not trying to discourage using a brace, just saying be careful and stay current on the rules concerning it.

3) Understood, but if that's the way you are thinking, might want to consider building a spare parts kit to keep with it.
I have it set up for Mil-Spec, and that has never bothered me. I'd like to get something fancy some day, but Mil-Spec is fine for this application for me.

I live less than 100 miles from the US/Mexico border, so it's a mix of mountains and desert scrubland as far as the eye can see. I'm mostly worried about close encounters with Coyotes( 4 and 2-legged kinds :annoyed: ) but obviously the "avoid contact" rule is my go-to as far as safety lol.

I'm planning on just running one of those slip-on braces, should the current ruling change on legality, I'll just slip it off and disregard. I have a sling that I will run with it to add to the stability factor.

Big thanks for your input, really valuable information!
 

JoshT

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
TRS Banner 2012-2015
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
2,544
Reaction score
57
Points
48
Location
Macon/Fort Valley, GA
Vehicle Year
1999
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Size
4.0L
Transmission
Automatic
Yeah, with the right ammo 223 should work fine for that. Had no idea where Cochise County was at, so couldn't relate to what your rough country might be. Not much different from what mine would be in a sense, but yours is much drier, flatter, and more open.

Due to my job I can't carry anyway. Drive into a federal installation daily, no firearms allowed. If I could, I think I would be better suited with a pistol or PCC for the varmints and tighter spaces, or a larger caliber for the bears. Fortunately I'm easily able to avoid where the varmints hang out, and the bears (actual bears) aren't aggressive unless their young are threatened.
 

Craig0320

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Article Contributor
V8 Engine Swap
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
1,081
Reaction score
109
Points
63
Location
Mississppi
Vehicle Year
1998
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
5.0
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
4WD
My credo
Break it right the first time. Fix it better the next time.
I still do not own an AR. For some reason I never got around to building/buying one. I carry a M&P SHIELD .40 on my now. I was carrying a Para Slim Hawg .45 but decided to lose a little weight and switch.
 

85_Ranger4x4

Forum Staff Member
Forum Moderator
Article Contributor
V8 Engine Swap
OTOTM Winner
TRS Banner 2010-2011
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
25,021
Reaction score
5,053
Points
113
Location
SW Iowa
Vehicle Year
1985
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
5.0
Transmission
Manual
4 legged coyotes are generally more scared of people that people are of them. I hear them all around me at night and I have yet to see one in 6 years.

Your results may vary with 2 legged ones.

If you are overgassed IMO the first thing to pick on is the gas, I have a Seekin's adjustable gas block on my Grendel and I like it.

Shooting a rifle bullet with big mags has its perks but generally I have no use or interest in an AR pistol. They are too freaking huge to carry, if I can't conceal the thing I just as soon have a rifle and be done with it.

For pistol I would check into other calibers too. .300BLK or 6.5 Grendel would be what I would pick between. 7.62x39 would be ok but you don't have a ton of bullet choices that are not FMJ.

I still do not own an AR. For some reason I never got around to building/buying one. I carry a M&P SHIELD .40 on my now. I was carrying a Para Slim Hawg .45 but decided to lose a little weight and switch.
If you ever want to get into it, building is a ton of fun. :icon_thumby:
 

RollinWOT

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
962
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Cochise County
Vehicle Year
1998/2015
Make / Model
Ford/Kia
Engine Size
3.0L Vulcan/GDI 2.0L
Transmission
Manual
4 legged coyotes are generally more scared of people that people are of them. I hear them all around me at night and I have yet to see one in 6 years.

Your results may vary with 2 legged ones.

If you are overgassed IMO the first thing to pick on is the gas, I have a Seekin's adjustable gas block on my Grendel and I like it.

Shooting a rifle bullet with big mags has its perks but generally I have no use or interest in an AR pistol. They are too freaking huge to carry, if I can't conceal the thing I just as soon have a rifle and be done with it.
We see coyotes on my property several times a month, but they are only scared off by our dogs, they are acclimated to humans where we are. Human trafficking is a normal thing in our area, and those Coyotes have been known to prey on the solo, small groups of people. Again, avoidance is my main thing.

I think the PSA upper will work fine, but I will be getting an adjustable gas block once the base gun is built. The only reason I'm going with 5.56 is because of ammo compatibility with the other AR I have, and to reduce the types of ammunition I have to buy. I have no experience with .300BLK or 6.5Grendel, but I have heard that those larger bore ARs can strip the rifling out quicker than a 5.56/.223 round generally would, but I can't attest to this.
 

85_Ranger4x4

Forum Staff Member
Forum Moderator
Article Contributor
V8 Engine Swap
OTOTM Winner
TRS Banner 2010-2011
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
25,021
Reaction score
5,053
Points
113
Location
SW Iowa
Vehicle Year
1985
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
5.0
Transmission
Manual
You can get into weird hybrids too.

If you already have a 5.56 that makes sense. A .300BLK wil chamber in a 5.56 and you get a blown up gun and a foot long noodle bullet stuck in the barrel when it goes off.
 

RollinWOT

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
962
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Cochise County
Vehicle Year
1998/2015
Make / Model
Ford/Kia
Engine Size
3.0L Vulcan/GDI 2.0L
Transmission
Manual
A .300BLK wil chamber in a 5.56 and you get a blown up gun and a foot long noodle bullet stuck in the barrel when it goes off.
Oh boy, fun souvenirs, only costs a gun and your face in exchange:icon_rofl:
 

RollinWOT

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
962
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Cochise County
Vehicle Year
1998/2015
Make / Model
Ford/Kia
Engine Size
3.0L Vulcan/GDI 2.0L
Transmission
Manual
Well, I got my PSA 10.5" upper in a couple weeks ago, finally got it out to the range and put 250 through it(mixed steel-cased Tula and brass cased Winchester). A couple FTF with the steel-cases, but otherwise ran flawlessly with everything else. Recoil spring twang was pretty noticable with the buffer-tube-only setup, but I will probably be upgrading to a Geissele Super42 braided recoil spring and buffer setup, so hopefully that will take up some of the slop and I will be grabbing an SB brace for it later on down the line, if/when they go on sale. Funny enough talking about the .300BLK, I found one loose live round of it while I was on the range, and just to see, sure enough it did fit in the magazine of the 5.56 I had.
 

85_Ranger4x4

Forum Staff Member
Forum Moderator
Article Contributor
V8 Engine Swap
OTOTM Winner
TRS Banner 2010-2011
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
25,021
Reaction score
5,053
Points
113
Location
SW Iowa
Vehicle Year
1985
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
5.0
Transmission
Manual
Sounds good, I have heard good things about PSA but they never had what I needed when I needed it. Dad has gotten some stuff from them and has had good luck.

.300 black is a trimmed down 5.56. A lot of people make their own brass out of 5.56 brass. A lot of the reason it is so popular is because it you can use 5.56 mags and bolts, and if you have a 5.56 you can use recycle its brass to make .300BLK (which is more expensive to buy than 5.56 off the shelf) It is a little bit longer overall but when chambered in a 5.56 usually the BCG comes ahead with enough force to drive the bullet back into the case and still close.



Which gets you variations of this:



My 5.56 had a funny whack sound when it went off, I checked around and the buffer retainer hole was too far back so it would catch the buffer instead of letting it ride all the way ahead with the BCG. I got an offset buffer retainer and the noise went away.
 

Will

Forum Staff Member
Forum Moderator
Joined
Nov 30, 2001
Messages
6,820
Reaction score
282
Points
83
Location
Gnaw Bone, Indiana
Vehicle Year
2007
Make / Model
Toyota
Engine Size
4.0
Transmission
Manual
My AR pistol thought is that it ain't a pistol. My AR is an A2 Gov't pattern, except for the removable carrying handle--which you weren't allowed to carry it by.

I carried an A2 for 6 of my 10 years, so I bought one as a reminiscence. It's kind of freaky because I never really liked it or thought anything about it, but I had it with me so much that the paint and knurling and textures on the plastics on the new one are so different that it's almost a different gun.

For the other 4 years I had a S&W Model 19 and Remington 870 for 3 of them, and then a Beretta M9 for the last.
 

85_Ranger4x4

Forum Staff Member
Forum Moderator
Article Contributor
V8 Engine Swap
OTOTM Winner
TRS Banner 2010-2011
TRS 20th Anniversary
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
25,021
Reaction score
5,053
Points
113
Location
SW Iowa
Vehicle Year
1985
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
5.0
Transmission
Manual
My AR pistol thought is that it ain't a pistol. My AR is an A2 Gov't pattern, except for the removable carrying handle--which you weren't allowed to carry it by.

I carried an A2 for 6 of my 10 years, so I bought one as a reminiscence. It's kind of freaky because I never really liked it or thought anything about it, but I had it with me so much that the paint and knurling and textures on the plastics on the new one are so different that it's almost a different gun.

For the other 4 years I had a S&W Model 19 and Remington 870 for 3 of them, and then a Beretta M9 for the last.
Retro AR's are pretty interesting. Guys can start off with a 80% lower and have it all engraved just like their service rifle (or a generic service rifle) down to the serial #. Then they hunt down all the "correct" parts and age it and all that too.

My first one is similar to yours. I wanted a basic rifle with iron sights. It has tan furniture and Magpul forearm and grip but is basically a standard 20" rifle with a detachable carry handle after that.
 


Top