Anyone want to talk about break-in?

[pcollins]

If you change your oil every 3000 miles you may as well just buy fresh oil from the store, and dump it right down the drain. Big Jim is right. A lot of the newer Trucks with oil change indicators don't turn the light on until around 7500 miles. Why would the people who designed the engine do that? because they know whats good for it. All the big motor companies are claiming to have long lasting engines, if 7500 mile oil changes were gonna hurt that claim, they wouldnt tell ya to do it!

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

If you change your oil every 3000 miles you may as well just buy fresh oil from the store, and dump it right down the drain. Big Jim is right. A lot of the newer Trucks with oil change indicators don't turn the light on until around 7500 miles. Why would the people who designed the engine do that? because they know whats good for it. All the big motor companies are claiming to have long lasting engines, if 7500 mile oil changes were gonna hurt that claim, they wouldnt tell ya to do it!

Big trucks see much different use than a car. Not many 5 min trips uptown for them.

I have seen some pretty serious issues by people running their oil longer than they should, but still in the spec for their book.

I would rather wash oil down the drain that crate motors, I usually change at around 4k or 5k though.

 

[feellnfroggy]

Just for reference, every honda streetbike ( to my knowledge) and all saleen, roush motors are run at redline for 20 minutes after build. They say if you break it in how you drive it, then it will perform best at that level. Me personally, I have no problem with hotdoggin it right from the get go, just make sure to do fluid changes more often as the speed of wear to the broke in point will accellerate.

 

[feellnfroggy]

Also, the newer hondas, toyotas, and i beleive even chevy and ford are recommending oil changes as high as ten thousand miles now. I used to work for Honda of Ocala and they for a fact recommended 10k mile oil changes on the brand new (at that time) 2002 honda civics and accords.

 

[exbass94]

Anyway, I love starting oil discussion threads. They're always fun.

Guhh I HATE oil discussion threads, because they're always filled with so many misconceptions and ridiculous crap, such as changing oil every 3k miles. If you're changing oil every 3k miles, you're still living in the 1970s. Oils today are waaay better than they were even 10 years ago, let alone 40 years ago, and are capable of going way longer than 3k miles. Also, engines are so much more efficient and clean-burning than old carbureted engines, and they simply don't dump as much crap into the oil.

Don't try giving me that "cheap insurance" argument. With that logic, why not change it every 1k miles? Every 400 miles? Every 5 miles? At what point does it stop being "cheap insurance" and start becoming a waste of money and oil? IMO, 3k is already at the point of a waste of oil. Get with the times, put away those 8-track tapes, and start changing your oil every 5k miles.

 

[barrys]

There is one conflict of interests on factory recommendations which is:
They are incentivized to have your truck's motor not live as long as possible.
They've also gone to lighter weight recommendations lately since they'll do anything to get another fractional MPG on the window sticker.

All that said, I do agree with the improvement in oil quality arguments. And I'll stick to my guns and say again that testing used oil is better than guessing whether it's still good.

And....
Please give your recommendations for the first change.

 

[Jason]

Just because someone has a title of "Engineer" doesn't mean they have a flippin clue what they are talking about or writing.

Anyone who runs conventional or even synthetic blend oil for 7,500 miles is asking for problems.

Change your oil every 3,000 miles and be done with it.

Spoken like someone who isn't an engineer. Run Mobil 1 for 7500, send it for analysis, then talk to me. Until then you have no clue.

 

[barrys]

> Until then you have no clue.
Finally!

I have engineer in my title. But it has nothing to do with mechanics or lubrication. I just know what an engineer deems a reasonably supported argument vs. someone on the net expressing an opinion. Both are interesting. One is more meaningful to me.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Guhh I HATE oil discussion threads, because they're always filled with so many misconceptions and ridiculous crap, such as changing oil every 3k miles. If you're changing oil every 3k miles, you're still living in the 1970s. Oils today are waaay better than they were even 10 years ago, let alone 40 years ago, and are capable of going way longer than 3k miles. Also, engines are so much more efficient and clean-burning than old carbureted engines, and they simply don't dump as much crap into the oil.

Don't try giving me that "cheap insurance" argument. With that logic, why not change it every 1k miles? Every 400 miles? Every 5 miles? At what point does it stop being "cheap insurance" and start becoming a waste of money and oil? IMO, 3k is already at the point of a waste of oil. Get with the times, put away those 8-track tapes, and start changing your oil every 5k miles.

Todays oils still sludge up because water still gets in them from condensation. Someone that does a lot of short trips in colder weather will never get the oil evaporated out of the oil.

I do change mine about about every 5k though, once in the spring and once in the fall. I do still consider the 7500 mile thing to be as big of a load of bull now as it was in my carburated '85 Ranger.

 

[exbass94]

There is one conflict of interests on factory recommendations which is:
They are incentivized to have your truck's motor not live as long as possible.
They've also gone to lighter weight recommendations lately since they'll do anything to get another fractional MPG on the window sticker.

Highly disagree with that. Engines are not designed to fail like that. Engines are probably the most durable part of an entire vehicle, even with the 5k or 7.5k mile recommendation. A vehicle's automatic transmission will die long before the engine dies, and is probably the biggest reason most vehicles are sent to the junkyard. The other most common reasons are they get totalled in an accident, they rust out till they're structurally unsafe, or they're just generally worn out (electrical gremlins, worn suspension components, bald tires, etc, lots of little things that add up to one big thing). Sure, some of them are junked due to engine problems, but the majority are not.

The reason for the 5k or 7.5k recommendation is simply because the oil can easily handle it. Used oil analyses and thousands of engine teardowns have confirmed this. Put it this way: Back in the 1940s and 50s, people changed oil every 1k miles. You basically HAD to because the oils back then were crap. Then over time, oils improved and by the 1970s, 3k miles was the new standard. And I'm sure all the old-school old-timers thought people were nuts for waiting that long, and they continued changing it every 1k. It's no different today. Oils have continued to improve and 5k is the new standard. Some people just aren't ready to accept it yet.

 

[trader007]

i guess im the only one who just listens to my truck. if i put cheap oil in, i can usually notice start to get noisier around 1000 miles or so.... if i put good oil in, the high mileage kind with additives, it can take 4k miles or so before i notice it getting noisy.

ive been driving my truck forever though, i pretty much notice every little weird sound it makes. and my methods are about as unscientific as it gets. but like i said, 4 or 5k is usually what i do... thats just what mine likes. oh and YES, 5w30 is better then 10w30 too. the motor runs better on the 5w. no bones about it.

 

[pcollins]

Big trucks see much different use than a car. Not many 5 min trips uptown for them.

I have seen some pretty serious issues by people running their oil longer than they should, but still in the spec for their book.

I would rather wash oil down the drain that crate motors, I usually change at around 4k or 5k though.

When did we start discussing the difference between car and truck uses? Anyways, I use my truck for everything. 70 miles a day round trip to work, running at about 2200rpm the whole time, plus hauling hay/wood and random other stuff. The oil STILL comes out clean afterr 5k. I think on my next oil change i'm going to have it sampled, out of curiosity now.

I do like this video i found a while ago though, about oil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzZdwqozuFc

 

[feellnfroggy]

people have to remember synthetics are a good way to prevent wear in newer motors, inthe older motors the wear is already there unless you have been using synthetics for 50 years. So you have to choose your oil based on a worn engine. and A new synthetic may not be prime for your truck. Hence the oil will wear out quicker and youll notice those noises. Car or truck either one. I run the high mileage and have to change every 3-4k thats just the way my motor is its over 200k and puts alot more stress on the oils I use. If it was a newer honda civic with royal purple full synthetic or sumthing, I probably wouldnt change my oil for 12-15k miles.

 

[Jason]

Big trucks see much different use than a car. Not many 5 min trips uptown for them.

I have seen some pretty serious issues by people running their oil longer than they should, but still in the spec for their book.

I would rather wash oil down the drain that crate motors, I usually change at around 4k or 5k though.

My work trucks rarely run more than 15 miles at a time. A few of them have over 1 million miles on them.

 

[Psychopete]

The thing I really want to hear about are opinions about what mileage to change at when the motor is brand new.

I do the first change at around 50 miles on a fresh engine to get any possible crap floating around out. I usually do more frequent, increasing and at increasing interval, I like to look at the oil that's coming out. What that interval is depends on the engine, what has been done, and the state of the engine. My Tempo has 180K on it, had it apart to change the rear main, replaced the main/rod bearings, timing chain, oil pump and pick up; different intervals so I can keep an eye on things as they settle in. If metal shavings, time to start thinking about swapping in my spare engine.. It was pretty damn nasty inside, but so far it has been OK LOL. If it ran fine before, should run fine when put back together, right?