Anyone electrifying?

[stmitch]

the guy across the street was getting paid for his extra but he said hte batteries were the most expensive part. i know zero about any of this stuff though. i would totally be down for the no battery's part though. i guess i should call some of those companies that offer to install this stuff for free

I will caution you that lots of these solar install companies want to lease you the panels, especially the ones that offer "free" installation. And that can really mess things up if you want to sell your house, or put a new roof on. Buying and owning the panels upfront wouldn't have that to consider, but it can be a chunk of change too.

And if your roof is currently more than a decade old (asphalt) then it probably makes sense to just do a new one at the same time as you'd do solar (assuming it's a roof mounted system). And that adds even more to the upfront cost.

This stuff typically pays off years down the line, so you need to be pretty confident that you'll be in your house long term, or that a potential buyer will pay more for the house because it's got solar. That seems to be location specific. In some places, solar is really beneficial and desirable. It often has shorter payback periods in these locations too. In places that don't get tons of sun, the payback will probably be longer, and it may not be seen as glowingly by home buyers. Plan accordingly.

 

[Chapap]

Don't think It's that fossils are "tried and ture," but that they work. Electric just doesn't work on large scale. There used to be no electric power tools or RC vehicles. Now that's the preferred method for both.

A good example of how limited wind and solar powered electric does is on a sailboat. On a true ocean-crossing vessle you can power your nav systems, radio, and desalinator. That's it. Calif is basically looking at that and saying it's time to cut off the mast, add an electric motor.

 

[superj]

I will caution you that lots of these solar install companies want to lease you the panels, especially the ones that offer "free" installation. And that can really mess things up if you want to sell your house, or put a new roof on. Buying and owning the panels upfront wouldn't have that to consider, but it can be a chunk of change too.

And if your roof is currently more than a decade old (asphalt) then it probably makes sense to just do a new one at the same time as you'd do solar (assuming it's a roof mounted system). And that adds even more to the upfront cost.

This stuff typically pays off years down the line, so you need to be pretty confident that you'll be in your house long term, or that a potential buyer will pay more for the house because it's got solar. That seems to be location specific. In some places, solar is really beneficial and desirable. It often has shorter payback periods in these locations too. In places that don't get tons of sun, the payback will probably be longer, and it may not be seen as glowingly by home buyers. Plan accordingly.

we get so much sun year round that i would probably be fine. there are alot of solar panels on roofs here in my town. if you look at a map of texas, follow the edge along the gulf of mexico up a little bit and you will see corpus christi. thats where i live

i have no plans to sell but i don't want to be leasing panels. and my roof is only 5 years old, but thats good to know about.

 

[RonD]

The Solar map is great, also seems to point out where the most ICE cars/trucks are used...............................just saying


Most ships are converting to Electric drives, just a better system
And use Diesel generators to power the electrical systems
Which means they could be converted easier, to cleaner burning, or 0 emission, power generation, as better fuels are developed

Maybe current Hybrid vehicles will be converted to full electric by removing the ICE and replacing it with battery pack and plug in, electric motor and control is already in place

 

[oldgeek]

Or one could go the other way and convert an EV.

We Built the World’s First V-8 Tesla

The Rich Rebuilds team had a dead Model S. They fixed it with a Camaro engine.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Or one could go the other way and convert an EV.

We Built the World’s First V-8 Tesla

The Rich Rebuilds team had a dead Model S. They fixed it with a Camaro engine.

www.popularmechanics.com

This is the better way to go.

 

[stmitch]

The Solar map is great, also seems to point out where the most ICE cars/trucks are used...............................just saying

Solar is definitely easier in some locations than others. Not only because of sunlight, but because of government incentives too. But its important to consider that the map is an annual average. In July, the whole US gets tons of sun, and in January, nobody really does. So solar can work very well in places that don't look ideal on the map for parts of the year. Its just going to take more panels to do it year round.

Maybe current Hybrid vehicles will be converted to full electric by removing the ICE and replacing it with battery pack and plug in, electric motor and control is already in place

Most hybrids have low hp electric motors though. And the motors are often integrated into the transmission of the vehicle, which may not be a deal breaker, but could get weird without a more powerful motor or ICE supplementing it.

What I find interesting is that hybrids, PHEVs, and full BEVs are probably better off using different battery chemistries for each application. The larger the battery capacity, the fewer full charging/discharging cycles it will experience during it's lifetime. A BEV might be a couple of thousand full cycles over hundreds of thousands of miles, a PHEV sees ~1 cycle per day, but a regular hybrid could cycle dozens of times per day.

 

[oldgeek]

Many buying EV's have a 'going green' mentality. As far as CO2 is concerned, they are only 10-20% better than IC vehicles. That isn't nothing, but it is far from what is being marketed. And that does not address the environmental impact of mining battery materials.

This comparison from Volkswagen:

In summary, the current Golf TDI (Diesel) emits 140g CO2/km on average over its entire life cycle, while the e-Golf01 reaches 119g CO2/km.

It is evident that in the vehicle with an internal combustion engine most of the emissions occur during the use phase, that is, in the supply chain of the fossil fuel and the combustion. Here the Diesel reaches 111 g CO2/km. A corresponding vehicle with electric drive emits only 62 g CO2/km during this phase, which results from energy generation and supply. In contrast, most emissions from the battery-powered electric vehicle are generated in the productions phase. According to LCA, a Diesel here generates 29 g CO2/km, while 57 g CO2/km were determined for a comparable e-vehicle. The battery production and the complex extraction of raw materials are responsible for this. These emissions account for almost half of the CO2 emissions of the entire life cycle. During the use phase, CO2 emissions depend on the sources of energy production. They decrease all the more, the more regenerative energies are available.

Electric Vehicles with Lowest CO2 Emissions

For the same vehicle models with different powertrains, the carbon footprint of the battery-powered E variants is already better than those of the corresponding vehicles with internal combustion engines. In addition, the electric vehicles offer a higher CO2-saving potential in all phases of the...

www.volkswagen-newsroom.com

John Stossel had an interesting piece about it.

 

[RonD]

How are you suppose to sell ice(frozen water) in Alaska in the winter when you use Facts, you can't, you would have to be an idiot to try
So don't cloud up the issue
People still buy Chevys, Dodges, and Jeeps, its called salesmanship, same for electric vehicles
Sell them the dream not the reality, i.e. the Edsel, people bought them

 

[oldgeek]

People still buy Chevys, Dodges, and Jeeps, its called salesmanship, same for electric vehicles
Sell them the dream not the reality

Marketing can have a huge effect. I usually can pick it apart, pointing out the manipulations, and thus, feel immune to it. Until......

Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds, Challengers really never had an appeal to me once i was past youth. Then I saw this commercial and it really affected me, hit me emotionally. I WANTED that car!

 

[oldgeek]

The second part of John Stossel's report.

 

[RonD]

Very rarely is there a new product
99% of innovation is based solely on improvements to existing technology, i.e. a better mouse trap

Without a demand for electric vehicles there would be no demand for better electric vehicle batteries or better electrical distribution systems, or sources for electricity
That's the "driving" force(pun intended) behind innovations in these areas

Same happened with ICE back in the early 1900's
Most ICE ran on alcohol because people could make it themselves, no "gas stations" around, so for any longer trips you had to carry extra fuel with you, so a big "range issue", and not many good roads either
Paved roads came from demand
Gas stations came from demand

Demand drives innovation

 

[stmitch]

Many buying EV's have a 'going green' mentality. As far as CO2 is concerned, they are only 10-20% better than IC vehicles. That isn't nothing, but it is far from what is being marketed. And that does not address the environmental impact of mining battery materials.

This comparison from Volkswagen:

In summary, the current Golf TDI (Diesel) emits 140g CO2/km on average over its entire life cycle, while the e-Golf01 reaches 119g CO2/km.

It is evident that in the vehicle with an internal combustion engine most of the emissions occur during the use phase, that is, in the supply chain of the fossil fuel and the combustion. Here the Diesel reaches 111 g CO2/km. A corresponding vehicle with electric drive emits only 62 g CO2/km during this phase, which results from energy generation and supply. In contrast, most emissions from the battery-powered electric vehicle are generated in the productions phase. According to LCA, a Diesel here generates 29 g CO2/km, while 57 g CO2/km were determined for a comparable e-vehicle. The battery production and the complex extraction of raw materials are responsible for this. These emissions account for almost half of the CO2 emissions of the entire life cycle. During the use phase, CO2 emissions depend on the sources of energy production. They decrease all the more, the more regenerative energies are available.

Electric Vehicles with Lowest CO2 Emissions

For the same vehicle models with different powertrains, the carbon footprint of the battery-powered E variants is already better than those of the corresponding vehicles with internal combustion engines. In addition, the electric vehicles offer a higher CO2-saving potential in all phases of the...

www.volkswagen-newsroom.com

That report (from 2019) also leads off with the following:

"For the same vehicle models with different powertrains, the carbon footprint of the battery-powered E variants is already better than those of the corresponding vehicles with internal combustion engines. In addition, the electric vehicles offer a higher CO2-saving potential in all phases of the product cycle."

And then continues:

"Improvements in lithium-ion battery technology and supply chain optimizations lower the carbon footprint during battery manufacturing for the first ID. model planned for 2020 by more than 25 percent per kilowatt hour (kWh) of battery capacity compared with the e-Golf. When using regenerative energy, the reduction potential is almost 50 percent."

EV's are more carbon intensive to produce, but less carbon intensive to use (higher upfront carbon, but much lower per mile driven). So at some point, the ICE's footprint surpasses the EV's and from then on the EV's advantage only grows with each mile that it's driven. That VW study confirms that to be true, and they were considering older tech/battery chemistries and only using a vehicle life span of 200,000km (~124k miles). Most new vehicles will be used far more than that (at least in the US) which would only widen the EV's advantage over the ICE. And that's only considering GHG production. If smog forming emissions are also included in the ICE's numbers, then the EV payoff comes sooner.

 

[superj]

pay off for who? that is probably where all this needs to look.

 

[stmitch]

pay off for who? that is probably where all this needs to look.

People that breathe clean air, drink clean water, enjoy not having crazy weather wreak havoc on their lives, etc. So I'm guessing most humans really.

Is there money to be made here? You bet. Just as there's been money to be made for the last century in gas/oil, engineering cleaner, more efficient ICEs, etc.