Anyone electrifying?

[superj]

that route planner is cool but some of the charging spots are not on the normal highway route and you have to go into the towns to fill up. thats kind of a bummer. and charging added 9 hours to the overall trip time. thats not going to work either.

and i guess the red colored highway areas means there is no chargers in that section? its a pretty long trip from southern alabama where 10 and 20 sperate up to the next section for charging.

 

[19Walt93]

EVs aren't zero emission vehicles- the emissions are shifted to the power generator and currently 30% of power in the US is generated by coal fired plants. Nuclear would be a huge improvement and it's more reliable and less affected by weather than solar or wind. Too many people were scared by watching China Syndrome and by Chernobyl's near melt down caused by a military over ride built into it by the Soviets.
A friend retired to the Philippines and sent me a picture of a large field where nothing will grow in Indonesia that was covered with orange tailings from mining for EV battery materials. Battery replacement is inevitable if you keep the vehicle for a long time and extremely expensive, maybe it'll get cheaper over time, maybe the hazardous disposal of old batteries will make it more expensive. I've heard of people replacing individual cells in EV battery packs, it never works to mix old and new batteries. It would be interesting to know how many first responders have been electrocuted at EV accidents.
We'll see what the future holds, one technology advance can change everything. When I was a kid it was predicted that electricity would be too cheap to meter once nuclear plants came online. In the early 80's I got a science magazine called Omni, they had an article predicting the end of tooth decay because a vaccination was about to be introduced that would prevent tooth decay.
Tax subsidies for EV buyers are just plain wrong- people who can afford a Camry/Fusion size vehicle that costs 2 1/2 times as much- should not get rewarded financially with money paid in taxes by others, many of whom could not afford those cars, or any new car.

 

[DeathRanger]

We have access to a completely maintenance free thermo-nuclear reactor that was automatically turns on every day and produces no nuclear waste on earth. And In fact, if this thermo-nuclear reactor didn't "turn-on" every morning, life on earth would cease to exist within a few days anyway.

It's estimated 173,000 terawatts of solar energy are hitting the earth at any given point during the day or 10,000x the amount of energy Earth uses.

solar + batteries is the future of energy

 

[rusty ol ranger]

EVs aren't zero emission vehicles- the emissions are shifted to the power generator and currently 30% of power in the US is generated by coal fired plants. Nuclear would be a huge improvement and it's more reliable and less affected by weather than solar or wind. Too many people were scared by watching China Syndrome and by Chernobyl's near melt down caused by a military over ride built into it by the Soviets.
A friend retired to the Philippines and sent me a picture of a large field where nothing will grow in Indonesia that was covered with orange tailings from mining for EV battery materials. Battery replacement is inevitable if you keep the vehicle for a long time and extremely expensive, maybe it'll get cheaper over time, maybe the hazardous disposal of old batteries will make it more expensive. I've heard of people replacing individual cells in EV battery packs, it never works to mix old and new batteries. It would be interesting to know how many first responders have been electrocuted at EV accidents.
We'll see what the future holds, one technology advance can change everything. When I was a kid it was predicted that electricity would be too cheap to meter once nuclear plants came online. In the early 80's I got a science magazine called Omni, they had an article predicting the end of tooth decay because a vaccination was about to be introduced that would prevent tooth decay.
Tax subsidies for EV buyers are just plain wrong- people who can afford a Camry/Fusion size vehicle that costs 2 1/2 times as much- should not get rewarded financially with money paid in taxes by others, many of whom could not afford those cars, or any new car.

I still dont get why they arnt dumping money into the synthetic fuels that burn clean in any IC engine, and im assuming be used with existing gas pumps and tanks. Seems to me that would be alot better option then electric.

 

[stmitch]

I still dont get why they arnt dumping money into the synthetic fuels that burn clean in any IC engine, and im assuming be used with existing gas pumps and tanks. Seems to me that would be alot better option then electric.

Because while syn fuels may be carbon neutral (GHGs), they still produce smog forming emissions from the tailpipe. And making the fuels isn't a particularly efficient process either. To be carbon neutral, you'd have to start with electricity from renewables (which could be used to power EVs instead), then you do some work (reducing efficiency of the process) to get hydrogen (that could be used for hydrogen ICEs or fuel cells instead). Then you take that hydrogen and do some more work to it (again reducing the efficiency of the process) to end up with synthetic fuel. Step three is actually a few other steps/refining processes combined but it's an easy picture.

So what you end up with is something like .3x miles driven per kwh generated with a synthetic fuel, when stopping at the hydrogen creation process might be .5-.7X miles per kwh generated, and just using the clean electricity directly for EVs might be .95X miles per kwh since the only real losses would come from pretty minor transmission and charging losses.

What we are beginning to see (from passenger vehicle OEMs as well as commercial ones) is development of ICEs that burn hydrogen. Those would have no tailpipe emissions other than water. But getting the hydrogen (step 1 in the image above) is often pretty carbon intensive process. I think that with more development in both the vehicles and the hydrogen electrolysis process it could be a much cleaner alternative to what diesel is today. So we might have batteries become more or less what gasoline currently is (light duty use) while hydrogen is the diesel replacement for heavy work or weight sensitive applications. But those won't be using existing engines and vehicles.

 

[RonD]

Synthetic fuels have same CO2 emissions issues as oil fuels, they get their "lower emissions" status because they are made by capturing the released CO2 and it's used to make the synthetic fuel

I think power plants using synthetic fuel would be a better option so CO2 could be captured on the spot and reused to make more synthetic fuel

Same as coal fired power plants were better for less pollution/emissions in their day
100,000 homes each using coal for heating/cooking vs 1 power plant using coal for heating/electricity
It was better, well maybe not for people living next to the power plant, lol, but better overall
People tend to forget what wood and coal heating/cooking in individual homes was like in the neighbourhood

Having 100,000 vehicles burning fuel vs 1 power plant burning fuel
It will be simpler to convert the power plant to something "cleaner" at that time than converting 100,000 vehicles in that same time frame

30% of electrical power is coal fire, for now
EV range is 200miles, for now

There is always something new around the corner, history teaches us that, and its totally normal to be Amish about "new stuff", that's how humans have survived, "if it was good enough for my Father and Grandfather its good enough for me"
Slow changes, but changes do happen, even to the Amish
Amish do use power tools, cordless or air powered

 

[Chapap]

Just a curiosity I had: What kind of mpg would the typical electric car get if charged by a home generator? I'm guessing mid 20s... 12hr charge, 1 gal hr, 200 mi = ~17 mpg, but I'd think it's a bit better than that.

 

[RonD]

It would be better than ICE vehicle MPG if they were equal in size/weight
Generators, gas or diesel, run at steady RPMs where they are most efficient in generating electricity vs fuel use

ICE vehicles don't have that ability, RPMs must vary for use from inefficient to most efficient, on a longer trip at steady speeds it could be close, not better just closer, lol

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

It would be better than ICE vehicle MPG if they were equal in size/weight
Generators, gas or diesel, run at steady RPMs where they are most efficient in generating electricity vs fuel use

ICE vehicles don't have that ability, RPMs must vary for use from inefficient to most efficient, on a longer trip at steady speeds it could be close, not better just closer, lol

I'm not sure about that, there would be loss from conversion.

 

[19Walt93]

It's hard to get too worked up over carbon reduction when our "climate czar", John Kerry owns and uses a fleet of private jets, the airlines are jammed with people flying every day, cruise ships are sailing everyday belching smoke from massive diesels, and there are always 5-6 mpg campers on the roads.
There are more people alive now than at any time in the past and we all exhale carbon dioxide, which plants need to grow.
Every vehicle would get at least 5% more mileage(from my own experience) if the alcohol was removed from our gas, it's only in the gas for political reasons.

 

[RonD]

I'm not sure about that, there would be loss from conversion.

Yes, in both cases

Gasoline's main benefit as a fuel is instant acceleration, i.e. performance, until diesel's got turbos they were relegated to "low performance" vehicles

A 5kW gasoline generator burns 0.75gal/hour, so 3 gal in 4 hours, and 20kW
Electric cars average 3miles per 1kW(some are pushing 5 mile/kW)
so 20kW = 60miles and 3gal of gas for 20MPG

3gal of gasoline at $4/gal = $12 or $1.60/kW
Electricity from power company $0.16/kW so 10 times the price to use gasoline, in an ICE car or generator

Not ideal to recharge this way, but you are not leaving too much on the table if you have to do this, way cheaper to plug it in to "grid"

 

[rusty ol ranger]

Yes, in both cases

Gasoline's main benefit as a fuel is instant acceleration, i.e. performance, until diesel's got turbos they were relegated to "low performance" vehicles

A 5kW gasoline generator burns 0.75gal/hour, so 3 gal in 4 hours, and 20kW
Electric cars average 3miles per 1kW(some are pushing 5 mile/kW)
so 20kW = 60miles and 3gal of gas for 20MPG

3gal of gasoline at $4/gal = $12 or $1.60/kW
Electricity from power company $0.16/kW so 10 times the price to use gasoline, in an ICE car or generator

Not ideal to recharge this way, but you are not leaving too much on the table if you have to do this, way cheaper to plug it in to "grid"

Just remember though....gas was cheap to untill everyone needed more of it.

 

[stmitch]

Just remember though....gas was cheap to untill everyone needed more of it.

You can't make your own gasoline though. You can generate your own electricity and control that cost.

If you're concerned about energy costs (which I think you're right about), there are pretty well defined ways to reduce or completely eliminate dependence on others for your energy needs. Might even get some tax breaks to take some action and move toward your own independence.

 

[RonD]

Actually gasoline was $.30/gal in 1920 which would be $3.87/gal in todays $

In the 1930s thru 1960s it was $.18-$.22gal, which would be our $2/gal range

Now we are back to 1920s again, lol


Yes, supply and demand, and as said most, 99% of us, can not refine/make our own gasoline, maybe make alcohol fuel though, if cost gets too high

Electricity on the other hand can be generated via solar panels, and stored, if electrical prices get too high
People that live in apartments may not have that option but they are "in town" so have access to other transportation choices
So supply of electricity is not a finite thing like gasoline is, its supply side is out of the control of just a few companies, unlike supply of oil is control with no other options except not using it daily

 

[Chapap]

If it comes to needing to make our own electricity, I’d bet buying solar panels would be pretty tough to get a hold of. Best bet would be to live on a good river