Another A4LD to M5OD Swap

[dcpppf]

Thanks for the thoughts on the pedal removals Robbie. Hopefully when i get to poking around under there this evening that'll make more sense. I have been assuming that the bracket itself was different between auto/manual and you're making it sound as tho the bracket is the same, but the pedals are different. At least for the 1990; is that a fair statement?

And on the 4.0 clutch swap topic... My ol girl is down on power to say the least and I can't imagine will ever cap out the capabilities of the smaller clutch assembly from another 2.9L lol. If I get to the point where that's a problem I'll happily drop the trans again to upgrade then, but I'm not holding my breath. She's had very little get up and go ever since I can remember as a kid when grandpa was still driving the thing.

 

[RobbieD]

Thanks for the thoughts on the pedal removals Robbie. Hopefully when i get to poking around under there this evening that'll make more sense. I have been assuming that the bracket itself was different between auto/manual and you're making it sound as tho the bracket is the same, but the pedals are different. At least for the 1990; is that a fair statement?

Exactly- on my '90, a pin (or shaft) goes through the wider auto brake pedal. The manual pedals' shaft simply adds the clutch pedal fixed to the shaft end, which then goes through the skinnier brake pedal. On mine the bracket was the same for both applications. It would help you if you had a donor pedal assembly in front of you when you scope yours out, and also to check if the brackets look the same.

 

[dcpppf]

Welp, got the trans out of a '91 ranger this last weekend. Had #57,000 miles on the truck from Mexico, but I did discover a "rebuilt" decal on it when I got it home. Shifter engages and feels great, but the output shaft seal appears to have been leaking. There is what looks to be gear oil in the housing that's pretty dark. When I drained the tcase at the yard it had a very obvious red tint to it that the oil/fluid around the output shaft did not have.

Anyone know if the m5od-R1's output shaft seal is installed from the outside of does it have to be installed from inside?

Other than that i've been making slow progress on the removal. I did snag the clutch/brake pedal and shaft from the '91 just in case/for ideas and yeah the shaft is about 3" longer lol. Definitely not going to work but once I get the master in maybe I'll see a way to just cut the clutch pedal off and weld it on my OE pedal assembly shaft.

 

[NakedDucks]

They may have put gear oil in it. Some people don’t pay attention to they types of fluid that things require. Inspect it well, clean it very good, and fill it back full of auto trans fluid before you install it.

There has been an ongoing discussion about whether it’s better or worse to run gear oil instead of ATF in an M5OD. Seems like it was a topic on here at one time. There are both good and bad things about doing it. Personally, I’ll keep running Dextron 5 in mine and keep a check. Pretty easy to check every oil change.

 

[Shran]

You can change that output seal pretty easily, just pull the tail housing off... it's driven in from the inside. That will give you a chance to look at the internals too. While you've got it out, it's a good idea to replace the top cover gasket and shift rail plugs too... and look over everything in the front half of the trans. Make sure the little oil trough on the driver's side isn't packed full of goo and metal shavings!

GL-5 gear lube will damage any manual trans that has brass/bronze synchros although it is a chemical reaction so it likely would take some time for that to occur. More importantly, gear lube is so thick that it will not make its way into the tiny oil passages in an M5OD...and it will be a bear to shift in cold weather. I would never run it in an M5OD.

GL-4 gear lube does not have the corrosive additives but it's pretty hard to find these days. It is still very thick and would cause the same issues with oiling and cold weather shifting.

 

[dcpppf]

Good deal! thanks for the info on the gear lube/oil and seal insight. Last night I got the trans free and clear of everything and ready to drop. Figured I'd start that portion with a fresh mind as I got a late start.

As for the new trans I'll definitley be pulling some covers to inspect, fully drain and refilling. Fingers crossed it looks as good inside as it feels from the outside.

No questions for anyone today for a change! I did break the speedo cable pulling it out of the tcase. I went to remove it and the housing/plug just split in half... So far that's been my only real hiccup!

 

[Shran]

Oh yeah, I was going to also mention that the 4.0 clutch upgrade is definitely worth doing. If you're buying a clutch and flywheel anyway, you might as well just buy the better parts right off the bat, they are probably about the same price. Snag the starter and the associated wiring/positive battery cable for it while you're at the junkyard too. I know our engines don't make a lot of power but the extra holding force of the larger clutch is worth it.

 

[dcpppf]

Now I've got two of you pushing the 4.0 clutch ... lol. After I get the a4ld out i'll turn to the m5 and start inspecting/getting a parts list for seals and all misc stuff. I did grab the 2.9l flywheel and pressure plate from the yard (both looked surprisingly clean since the trans just came off the day before), but the clutch was... toast.

That being said the seed has been planted by you two. As I'm getting parts together we'll see if I do end up spending the extra bit of $$ for the 4.0 clutch or not. Appreciate the looking out and suggestions for sure!

 

[NakedDucks]

I’ll trade you a 4.0 flywheel (you’ll need it for the conversion) for the 2.9 flywheel.

 

[Shran]

Well here's the thing about flywheels. You'll need to have it machined before you slap a new clutch on it. Around here that costs about $40. Last time I bought flywheel...it was right around $40-50. Looking at RockAuto you can get a brand new Luk 4.0 flywheel for $40............. skip the 2.9 clutch, I'm tellin ya. You're not going to be spending much more money if you spend any more at all.

 

[dcpppf]

Haha, good call on the machine shop fees. I'll be out of town next week hunting so one of those evenings I'll probably pull together a order and see. But you're right; even if I can get it done for $20 I might as well buy new, and if buying new there isn't much cost difference.

On a different note... I should be able to measure the bell housing thickness at the engine block once I get the a4ld out. But can any of you confirm the mounting bolts are different between the M5 and the A4? I vaguely recall reading that once upon a time and the yard had lost the mounting bolts when I got there last week.

 

[Shran]

Seems to me that the M5OD bolts are longer... On the 4.0, the two dowel bolts and the two bottom one are about an inch longer than the rest. I remember the A4LDs having several really short ones.

You can use what you have and long as they stick out of the bell housing about an inch, except for the dowel bolts on the sides, which need to be longer. You won't use the two bolts on the very bottom that would normally go through the 4.0 oil pan.

 

[NakedDucks]

Do you need M5 bolts? I’m about to pull an M5 trans and wont be using the bolts.

 

[dcpppf]

Took a week off to hunt, got home Saturday and finally got the old a4ld out of there. Next step is cleaning up/inspecting the M5 and buying all of the relevant parts and pieces!

Honestly I didn't think getting the trans out with the exhaust installed was too hard. The A4 rolled a bit CCW due to the pan being wonky shaped so maybe that helped. The only thing that made it overly difficult was that I forgot to remove the three 8mm screws holding the dust cover to the bell housing ... It was obviously in the way of the flywheel

 

[NakedDucks]

You won’t get The M5OD back in without dropping the exhaust...

UNLESS.....

You do the firewall mod! (Take a sledge, and beat the pinch weld of the firewall flat)