• Welcome Visitor! Please take a few seconds and Register for our forum. Even if you don't want to post, you can still 'Like' and react to posts.

Advocating Pertronix Billet distributors for 5.0/302 installations


corerftech

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
264
Reaction score
110
Location
Memphis, TN
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Transmission
Automatic
If your planning running a distributor conventionally on a 302 install, you will be money ahead as I have found out, using a Pertronix Billet with an Ignitor 2 module over what may seems a a a deal: Ford Chicom HEI (Jegs/Summit/Amazon, etc).

my sub $100 expenditure for a Jegs HEI on my 2001 5.0/gt40p engine has turned into a $600 expense over a few months.

Chicom distributors are not all made alike but I got a real winner and the headache, heartache, tears, arguments, second guessing and tuning issues are simply not worth it.

If you are running the GT40p head and want to run 87 octane, timing is an issue. The convention of 30-32 all in by 2500 rpm does not apply. Fast burn heads will only take 28-30 and not take it until about 3000 rpm. They will take 46-48 of vac at low speed and drive very well.

The chicom HEI had many defects and you don’t know to look for them until they slap you silly.

Thrust, vertical in shaft, far too large on all of them. Should be .020 and will be .060 to .100!

Gear lash- horrible. Gear will climb up and down the cam gear and retard as it does under accel.

Shaft bind at upper bushing. When it gets hot, and it will, it’s done. Will drive the next defect to the moon.

Advance plate bind-
Poor welding/too little clearance, causing the aforementioned heat to bind the plates. Grease WILL NOT help! Filing/honing will not help.

Weight travel atop plate-

Poorly punched, burrs, as well as the weights. Too thick. Causes the binding to be worsened. Must thin the center plate so that it can float in the pins freely.

Springs are junk-

lastly-
Upper bushing will be loose pressed. When the upper deck gets really hot, the housing will expand. This allows the poorly fit bushing to have some extra room and it starts to move DOWN. Remember the bushing is both a thrust and rotational device. As the bad drive gear forces the shaft up and down, it will pound the bushing deeper into the housing. This in turn allows the armature to hit the pickup coil and chew through it. The shaft slowly walks its way down into the housing destroying all in its path. Take it apart and fix it, lather rinse and repeat! Until the pickup coil is gone.

Pertronix-

Had mechanical advance limit straps, high quality springs, a sealed upper bearing, not a bushing. The shaft can’t move down. Correct clearance, correct thrust gap, a gear that doesn’t walk even a degree!

It’s smaller and fits better although I had issues with my selected manifold on vac advance can, nothing a grinder couldn’t relieve.

Set at 16 advance, 12 degree mech limited, for 28 degree total. I get butter smooth idle, clean exhaust, one click starts, and advance is done at 3250 with both black springs. At 2750 it is still too early for 87 octane. Better fuel may allow for earlier timing. Vac advance is adding 20 so I am at 46 cruising.

Oh and a warranty and tech support should you need that, not a Jegs 10 minute return window.

Jegs sucks.

I will add that it creates a noisy coil negative signal and needs a low pass filter installed. My MS TCU has an axm-110 conditioner that was happily producing good signal with the HEI, but this Ignitor 2 is a train wreck.
I will be installing a filter tonight, I guess GM owners have this issue with tach signals and Ignitor 2. This is the least of my worries. Not even a concern!
 
Last edited:

corerftech

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
264
Reaction score
110
Location
Memphis, TN
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Transmission
Automatic
Walt, your breaking my will to live.

I have not seen any of the issues you faced, with the Pertronix. I had all those issues with the Chinesium Jegs POS- including one you didn’t add, regarding 6 degrees before advancing!

I am hopeful that you got a lemon and I received a peach.

My radar is at high alert now that you posted
 

19Walt93

Well-Known Member
Ford Technician
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
4,879
Reaction score
4,932
Location
Canaan,NH
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
351
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Total Drop
3"
Tire Size
235/55R16
My credo
If you don't have time to do it right will you have time to do it over?
I got 2 distributors about 15 months apart from Summit with exactly the same results, that doesn't sound like a sample defect, it's a design flaw and Pertronix's unhelpful arrogant response sealed the deal.
Attach a timing light, disconnect the vacuum advance and watch the timing mark as you slowly raise the rpms- centrifugal advance should come in before 1000 rpms and advance smoothly. Mine had an 8 second delay before any advance. I put a steel gear on a Chinese built Napa distributor for an 86 351HO F250, tweaked the advance curve and it works perfectly.
 

19Walt93

Well-Known Member
Ford Technician
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
4,879
Reaction score
4,932
Location
Canaan,NH
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
351
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Total Drop
3"
Tire Size
235/55R16
My credo
If you don't have time to do it right will you have time to do it over?
Here's my Pertronix story.
I've installed Pertronix units in a couple points distributors and been happy with them so I decided to buy a Pertronix distributor for my 351 Ranger. It's shiny billet which doesn't appeal to me but it has bearings instead of bushings on the shaft and was very simple to wire. The problem is the centrifugal advance mechanism. It looks like a GM unit and the springs and weights are under the cap and easier to access than a Ford distributor. But they don't work. Centrifugal advance should come in smoothly and in a linear manner as the RPM's increase and drop back to base timing instantly when the engine returns to idle. My distributor doesn't advance at all until it's been held at about 2000 RPM for at least 8 seconds and doesn't return to base timing until it idles for 14 seconds. If I put in lighter springs it will advance at 1500-also after 8 seconds- and will only drop back when the engine is shut off. I called Pertronix in the summer and described what it was doing, at first I was told it can't do that, then he suggested I see if Summit would exchange it and call him for a replacement if they wouldn't. Summit replaced it without question even though I bought it 14 month prior. The replacement works exactly the same so I called Pertronix again and arranged to send it for testing after I parked the truck in November. It cost $35 to send it and I just got it back with a note :tested good , no details, no comment about the advance, no date or ID of the person who "tested" it. I assume they plugged it in, spun it up and it threw sparks, and put it back in the box.
If I had a good 351 distributor with a roller cam compatible gear I might put a Pertronix unit in it because the Ford advance mechanism works. I don't so I'm looking.
This distributor is a shiny turd and would be perfect on a Chevy small block with billet pulleys and an Edelbrock carb. The folks at car shows who are impressed by bling would love it.
 

corerftech

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
264
Reaction score
110
Location
Memphis, TN
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Transmission
Automatic
Walt your story is exactly what I faced with the chicom Hei. Advance system binding and in my case was heat related. Ice cold would behave, operating temp for a few minutes or seconds, a drive- it would simply stay stuck at 26-30, wherever it left off. Sometimes I could rap the thing on the noggin and it would click and find its way home, sometimes two or theee would progressively get it back or it would never go back to base. I’d let the cat cook for 10 mins and check, back to base. As it cooled you would hear it click back. Light springs didn’t have the balls to get it back at all. Black springs helped.
but then it decided to start driving the upper bushing into the housing and chewing through the pickup coil. So even after I KY engjneered the advance plate, the shaft simply descended into the housing and then bound on the melting chewed coil.My thrust gap went from .060ish new to .150

Sounds like we both got gyped badly. To date, no gremlins.

I do now have a bad misfire at 4000 rpm and above, machine gun backfires like hitting a Rev limiter. I realized I have been running .054 spark plug gap on the copper plus plugs and the chicom 65k volt Hei didn’t seem to have any issue.

Fast forward- change to 45k Pertronix and never pulled a plug to do anything. Pertronix ford gap only supports about .042 max, .005 more than stock 302. I also still have a ping at WOT even in wet rich AFR of 11.0

The plugs are TR55, those are hot plugs. I have that ping (no matter what distributor or timing value from 22d to 36d). I procured the RS12CY champion plug which is two steps colder to deal with the situation. I am guessing from both a pre ignition/ping/ wrong heat range and a .054 gap, I likely will find tonight a .060 gap with some erosion on these 10,000 mile old plugs.
Will be gapping to .040 and calling it a day.

I have tried every AFR from 13.5 to 10.0 at wot and every advance point from 26-34 and it does the exact same thing- ping (87 octane).
On efi I never heard a rattle ever, even on dreadfully hot memphis days. My crank degree tape was set using a piston stop and maybe has a one degree error- and I am being generous! But that all transcends the distributor.
It never phased me to deviate from the late model efi gap of .054.
Lastly the rpm signal error (noisy) on the coil negative terminal hitting my TCU input may very well be a misfire and that also never crossed my mind. Misfire would produce a really bad coil neg waveform so I am passing on the filter install until new plugs are installed. I believe plugs are the source of the above issue- ping, misfire. I might get to add some advance by a degree or two with cooler plugs gapped properly.
 

19Walt93

Well-Known Member
Ford Technician
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
4,879
Reaction score
4,932
Location
Canaan,NH
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
351
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Total Drop
3"
Tire Size
235/55R16
My credo
If you don't have time to do it right will you have time to do it over?
My advance didn't work at any temp, in my opinion the pivot point for the advance weights was positioned wrong. I don't recognise TR55 plugs and wouldn't use Champions in a Ford(or a GM) because of past experience with them. My 351 has slightly more compression that stock, mildly ported heads, an Edelbrock Performer with a Holley 80457, duraspark, and 1.7 roller rockers but is otherwise a stock 95 F150 engine running the ASF42C Motorcraft plugs it would have come with.
The 302 in my Mustang has ported GT40 heads shaved .015", Speed Pro pistons with the blocked shaved to get them at zero deck, an Isky cam with 210/218 duration, a Performer intake and the same Holley jetted a little leaner. It has run 13.8 @ 102 mph at New England Dragway with the Motorcraft AWSF42C's that were listed for the 96 Explorer that donated the heads.
Unless your engine has radical modifications, I'd run the Motorcraft plugs it came with. Save the Champions for old Mopars, AMC's and lawn mowers because I know they work well with Champions.
 

corerftech

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
264
Reaction score
110
Location
Memphis, TN
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Transmission
Automatic
And all that is happening on Kroger grocery 87 octane? You drag race on 87 octane?

That’s a lot of performance engine on horse piss for fuel- which is my fuel.
 

19Walt93

Well-Known Member
Ford Technician
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
4,879
Reaction score
4,932
Location
Canaan,NH
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
351
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Total Drop
3"
Tire Size
235/55R16
My credo
If you don't have time to do it right will you have time to do it over?
And all that is happening on Kroger grocery 87 octane? You drag race on 87 octane?

That’s a lot of performance engine on horse piss for fuel- which is my fuel.
My truck likes 87 just fine, the Mustang insists on 93. I tried 90 octane non ethanol once and it wasn't good. If you spent the money and did the work to install a 302, step up the octane and advance the timing to where the engine will be happy. You'll be happier, too.
 
Last edited:

corerftech

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
264
Reaction score
110
Location
Memphis, TN
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Transmission
Automatic
The factory did the work 260,000 miles ago on this 2001 explorer. It is a $1300.00 car and received a carburetor and efi removal such that it would have a bit more longevity w/o a computer, when the passenger bank forward cat collapsed and overheated the PCM coil drivers and fried them. The rotating assembly seemed viable so I took a risk with conversion.

There is more carbon on the pistons than UPS is paying carbon credits for annually on the entire US fleet. I think you are overlooking a clapped out old hag on its last legs, 50,000 of them I guess, and giving the engine more credit than it deserves. Its redeeming value is low cost and still not leaking a drop of anything. Burns quite a bit though.
It’s a shop truck- and goes to the junk yard to find replacement parts for itself-

I don’t think Ford expected to keep this engine alive this long, they expected it to be melted and sold back as sheet metal as most end up. Efi was not kind to this engine nor was the Mississippi baby momma that defiled the car with drugs and put it into a fire hydrant.

—-….. what you have working in your garage is a far cry from what I have revived from near dead.
I will give colder plugs a shot.

Have you watched the show roadworthy rescues?
Think the worst engine you have seen revived- with no leaks.

What it has provided is Microsquirt TCU system programming from dead scratch- training that is. Better to wreck a wreck than something new and precious while learning from nil, how to make a transmission drive appropriately by wire. Sounds like you have some nice stuff- I have a veritable cornucopia of worn out crap as a cheap rolling laboratory.
 
Last edited:

corerftech

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
264
Reaction score
110
Location
Memphis, TN
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Transmission
Automatic
Influenza A kicked me in teeth on Friday night/sat morn and continues to deter me from normal existence for another day or so…. first time taking Tamiflu as prescription drugs and I are rarely friends. Tamiflu does indeed work.

Nonetheless, before foot met teeth on Friday, was able to sort out the coil negative filter and used an oscilloscope to visualize what devices liked for waveforms
And voltages.

Pertronix puts out a square wave as it should with a really nasty 400v leading edge transient. A ring of significantly lower voltage continues for about 1/5th the square wave time factor, at about 60 percent amplitude. I had already set aside and calculated several RC snubbers and quite honestly it was all crap. Nothing would make the AXM-110 happy enough to drive the Microsquirt, I either had highly erratic, moderately erratic or nothing for rpm.
I then tried a simple capacitive shunt and even up at 100pf, it simply have similar results. Waveforms of course became sinusoidal and it’s hard to make a switch happy with a sinusoid input.

Now in part, I believe the AXM-110 NEEDS a high voltage due to its design so anything that reduces the expected 100-500v pulse too far is a problem. I then started with simple resistors as Pertronix support sent over for GM tach issues as a white paper. I found 2.2k to be just right. Waveform remains square with a distinct leading and trailing edge, a coupe of small transients of maybe 5v greater than the pulse average are at the leading and trailing edges. Looks like a cattle skull with horns. The system cares not about those transients. Voltage peaks about 45 average, down from 400. Connected alone this gives the squirt the most stable rpm signal.
I was able to remove the 12v from the VR2 input unused leg further decomplicating the arrangement. So just one resistor of 2.2k. Tried 5.6k and signal drops below threshold, but cleaner visually- and squirt sees zero signal. 1k is the opposite, still too much of that initial rising edge transient remains.

Now the explorer ford factory tach is a layer to add. With HEI, it would add its own manipulation to the signal and cause the squirt to have erratic behavior. I had to send it direct to the coil with HEI. If it received a filtered input it went dead. Similarly, it must stay tied direct to coil. Very easy connectivity now. One wire/lug direct to tach from coil post. A second with a sealed resistor in line for the AXM
And both can be defeated independently.

The little scope I used was a handheld Amazon sub $40 unit with a 10x probe. It’s too cold and cumbersome to bring my Hitachi DSO down from my vacuum tube audio bench. I should have…. Many months ago. I would have seen issues that likely could have been nipped in the butt sooner. The little scope is junk but—— it’s perfect for engine work.

It did make a big impact on signal integrity while connected. The R filter and the parallel input R from the scope ( and who knows what input capacitance) made for a 20 rpm bobble (worsening).
In finality I now have a trigger to the squirt that gives an idle rpm stable in a 30 rpm window (+/- 15-20). No excursions ever, no false, dash tach rock solid and both have zero delay.

My last effort on Friday before I started to feel the crap hit was to verify my TDC marks on my OE damper. I had initially used a piston stop to indicate both sides of TDC and generated a zero point for an MSD timing tape. I did so in car, quite difficult to precisely measure and find center. Apparently I missed by a tick. 2.25 degrees is the value of error. I performed the piston stop test again and found I missed center. I missed at -2 degrees.

So all of my timings have been advance 2.25 degrees advanced from intended. Ouch, certainly a partial cause of ping city. I will alter my adjustments appropriately heretofore to compensate.

Oh I did pull plugs and swap to the 12series as mentioned. I was not happy with what was pulled and will be doing frequent plug checks. Plug just way too hot, period, even considering a timing error of 2.5 ish degrees. Forget timing excess signs, the thread body showed way too hot. Colder plugs now gapped at .040. I have yet to drive the car as Friday evening became very short and I was not able to get the harness back sealed after the filter install.
Looking forward to Friday as I am
Prohibited from working till Monday but might be well enough to take a short drive. Timing set to 25 degrees (which is a corrected 27.5) as a new total timing test. I no longer expect to get more than 28 degrees total on these 2001 GT40P heads and 87 octane Kroger gas.

Oh another item: I am a novice on this whole tuning deal as the last 32 years I have driven nothing w/o a computer. A Weber base type 1 beetle was the last thing I jetted and timed- by plug read only. I naturally left my Innovate two channel AFR meter in Gasoline mode. I have viewed stoic as 14.7. I woke up on Thursday last week and asked myself, what is the stoic difference for E10 and gasoline? Can’t be much, right? Oh shit! It’s a half point. So I have converted my system and brain to lambda. I am hoping this will shorten my tuning. I was a fool to contemplate things in AFR and even more so to ignore the half point correction factor which is variable daily with ethanol content changes. Lambda- I like 1.00 equals 100% and 1.05 equals 5% lean and 0.85 is 15% rich. That’s way better on the noggin.
 

85_Ranger4x4

Wallows in rivers
TRS Event Staff
TRS Forum Moderator
Article Contributor
V8 Engine Swap
OTOTM Winner
TRS Banner 2010-2011
TRS 20th Anniversary
VAGABOND
TRS Event Participant
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
33,991
Reaction score
21,894
Location
SW Iowa
Vehicle Year
1985
Make / Model
Ford
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
5.0
Transmission
Manual

corerftech

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
264
Reaction score
110
Location
Memphis, TN
Vehicle Year
1987
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Transmission
Automatic
Well Walt wins a small consolation prize. Indeed Pertronix parts do have defects/issues….. resolved/resolvable but shouldn’t have ever been there.

Walt-
Chinese made Pertronix 0.6 FT 2 coil shit the bed apparently about the first week and some weirdness I couldn’t explain, assumed valvetrain on tired engine was to blame. As well, I take a coil neg signal from the ignition and feed it to my transmission controller. That signal was really bad, meaning it would spike to nearly 2kv Peak to Peak. I didn’t see it until I rolled back some video of a o’scope waveform. I was using a 1500v capable conditioner yet still hammering the controller input and seeing multiple events when a single event occurred.

I procured a Standard UC12 and a Standard ballast resistor, it now produces a 4-500v high school auto shop textbook waveform as it should. A 25v zener installed with 10k resistor to clamp the signal and limit to 25v PP, done. Like a newborns heartbeat.

Fortunately I bought the coil on Amazon and it has been returned. See ya on that junk shit, chinesium garbage.


On to distributor. I’ll be brief- misassembled from factory. The igniter ground screw was left loose, well looser than a ground screw should be. China virus probably kept the assembler from having the strength to properly tighten.

The igniter mounting stud nuts, one was loose to a questionable point. Again, chinesium metal exposure probably made the assembler sick and unable to tighten fully. Lastly and most importantly-
The igniter mount plate has two screws securing to distributor base. One was two full turns loose. This allowed the pickup to bounce mildly and offer or amplify the loose ground an opportunity to create problems as well as an unstable pickup time base.

Tightened all, now the ignition is superb. Pissed though and I am now on Walt’s team- Screw Pertronix! If you make good parts and can’t assemble them correctly, you suck sufficiently to be avoided.

But- I will still sing praises for the tune ability of the advance. I am now quite happy with the system and if push comes to shove, like the igniter fails- I will replace igniter with same but unload it by adding a used MSD6a (not L) so that it only has trigger duties. It should ostensibly last forever no longer heating from a coil charge.
Thanks Walt FR the warnings. Indeed you were right. I don’t have the hatred you have for them (yet) but my viewpoint has changed slightly!
 

19Walt93

Well-Known Member
Ford Technician
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
4,879
Reaction score
4,932
Location
Canaan,NH
Vehicle Year
1993
Make / Model
Ford Ranger
Engine Type
V8
Engine Size
351
Transmission
Automatic
2WD / 4WD
2WD
Total Drop
3"
Tire Size
235/55R16
My credo
If you don't have time to do it right will you have time to do it over?
I don't hate Pertronix, their drop in units are fine. Their Chinese distributors on the other hand would need to be better quality to be garbage.
 

Similar threads


Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad

Staff online

Today's birthdays

TRS Events

Member & Vendor Upgrades

For a small yearly donation, you can support this forum and receive a 'Supporting Member' banner, or become a 'Supporting Vendor' and promote your products here. Click the banner to find out how.

Truck of The Year


Kirby N.
2024 Truck of The Year!

Recently Featured

Want to see your truck here? Share your photos and details in the forum.

Vagabond Video

TRS Merchandise

Follow TRS On Instagram

TRS Sponsors


Sponsored Ad


Sponsored Ad


Amazon Deals

Sponsored Ad

Top