92 Ranger Starter Melt Down

[thomasakehoe]

Hey everyone newbie here with a problem I just bought a 92 Ranger STX 4x4 with manual trans and 4.0L engine from a friend who basically knows less about these vehicles than i do here's the problem the starter went bad in it a few months ago just seemed like the bendix was bad etc... would fire up sometimes and sometimes just click. Well a week ago he had a buddy of his install a new reman starter and the first time it started fine and then the second time it fired up and wouldn't disengage and by the time they got the battery terminal back off the small red wire on the starter was burned almost all the way off. So I am the proud new owner and I have a basic repair manual. I'm pretty good at wrenching etc... but electrical diagnosis is another story. I can see under the hood that at sometime in the trucks history someone has played Dr. Frankenstein and cut and spliced some wires. Just trying to get an idea as to what the wiring setup for the starter system should be etc.... like power goes from here to here to here and also if there is anything common with these trucks that might cause a starter to not disengage. Thanks for any help.

 

[MAKG]

BTDT.

This is a CLASSIC stuck relay. You almost certainly need another starter as well due to the burnout. But you have nothing to lose by trying to repair that wire, so you might as well try it.

The relay is on the passenger fender near the battery. It's not very expensive (probably around $20).

It's not a short or you would have some nice weld marks on your body.

 

[thomasakehoe]

Thanks will try that ASAP and let you know how it goes. I'm hoping that I can get the starter replaced for free as it has a warranty but not sure. Also looks like someone replaced the starter solonoid with a new one from what you're saying looks like they hit every spot but the right one. Thanks.

 

[AllanD]

Uhhh... a starter that will NOT disengage on a 4.0 with a MANUAL transmission?

That sound to me like your Rocket Surgeon installed an auto trans starter motor on
the manual trans engine, the starters are NOT the same.

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[thomasakehoe]

Just from looking at the starters is there any obvious differences between the manual and automatic versions?

 

[thomasakehoe]

Anyone... also just wondering about the layout of the components in the starting system. I haven't found any good diagrams as to component location. obviously I know where the starter is, but as far as where the relay and or solonoid are supposed to be and wiring. I'm just trying to make sure that the fore mentioned wiring someone had done in the past isn't part of the problem as the truck sits right now there's a red and blue wire that comes out of the firewall and runs over to the passengers side firewall to what looks like a conventional black plastic relay, which has the blue and red wire going in and also a ground black wire and two small red wires witch I'm assuming are to operate solonoids or switches somewhere nut here's where I'm confused it also has a "cobbed" wire coming the same route as the red and blue wire but running to a older style starter solonoid mounted on the inner fender as well. I thought on theses starters the solonoid was part of the starter assembly and the wires coming off of the solonoid aren't all factory connections either splices here and there. So any help will be greatly appreciated. I don't wanna burn up my Ranger for someone's else's stupidity. I have to deal with my own. Thanks again for any help.

 

[thomasakehoe]

Come on now folks... someone on here has to have a 4.oL Manual Trans Ranger that can look and let me know how to rewire my starter setup. PLEASES

 

[thomasakehoe]

Pretty pretty please guys, I just got a new starter from Advance and really want to make sure everything is as it should be before I reconnect the battery and fire it up.

 

[rickcdewitt]

look at a wiring diagram.the 4.0l clutch conversion article in the tech library might help also

 

[thomasakehoe]

OK so here's where I get a little confused. These Ford's (4.0L Manual Trans at least) seem to have 2 starter relays one on the starter motor assemble and one on the firewall. Basically as far as I can tell the starter solenoid on the starter has a large diameter positive battery lead direct from the battery (hot at all times) and then there is a smaller diameter wire labeled "to existing ignition switch lead" which at this point in time is coming down from the starter solenoid on the firewall. And the solenoid on the firewall has a direct positive connection to the battery (hot at all times) and a small push on connector which is only active while cranking the engine over, it also has the fore mentioned wire leading down to the starter solenoid and another wire which looks like it may have been spliced at some point which is going to one of the posts on the firewall solenoid and receives power at all times. So YYYYYYYYY..... wouldn't it be simpler just to have that small push on connector thats on the firewall solenoid just connect to the starter solenoid switch lead connection or is that a huge mistake. Just seems weird that when I look up Ford Factory Parts catalogs online they only show the firewall type solenoid for "positive engagement type"
starters like on 2.9L engines am I missing something major here?

 

[Aubrey]

Just from looking at the starters is there any obvious differences between the manual and automatic versions?

I think it's the placement angle of the solenoid coil terminal. I know that they ask whether automatic or manual when buying a new starter. The angle of the terminal is all I could figure.

 

[Aubrey]

OK so here's where I get a little confused. These Ford's (4.0L Manual Trans at least) seem to have 2 starter relays one on the starter motor assemble and one on the firewall.

Yes, you need both. The coil of the solenoid on the starter draws enough current to require the relay on the fender. A battery cable is extended directly to the starter solenoid and relay battery posts. The relay is energized by the ignition key and the output post sends battery voltage to the solenoid coil which engages the gear and powers the starter motor.
I believe the battery cable to the starter is 2 gauge, and the output wire from the relay to the solenoid is probably 10 gauge.
Don't bypass the relay because the solenoid coil current will burn up your ignition switch.
Not sure if this helps.
Oh, and one more thing, the coil terminal on the solenoid is very close to the block and if not positioned carefully, you will have a short circuit and burn up the 10 gauge wire from the relay to the solenoid. I did it and it's easy enough to do. Real easy to solve the second time around.

 

[thomasakehoe]

OK well figures someone would post a bunch of useful help after I get it all straightened out. LOL But anyway part of the problem I had was that apparently someone had run some accessories leads through factory plastic conduit which made things a little more confusing for me but after pulling the battery out and the air box assembly and untaping a bunch of conduits I found where the "mystery" wires went to and removed them also I got the nerve up to ask an old guy I saw in a supermarket parking lot if I could look at the solenoid under his hood after getting a weird look and then explaining why the guy was nice and I saw that the wire on the fender solenoid has basically a fool proof connector made out of a big chunk of rubber to keep you from putting the wires on backwards I guess... I basically had to go through snip off the ends of all the effected wires and attach new ring terminals and while dong so on the starter motor I noticed that the large power wire that has juice at all time had a couple of exposed strands right near the rubber block on the ring terminal. I think what may have happened is when the previous owner had the starter replaced the small wire on the starter that switches the starter on when the key is turned may have come in contact with the larger power wire for the starter and basically made the solenoid on the starter think the key was just being turned over and over. So to make a long story end the truck starts and doesn't start as it should thanks to everyone for the help.

 

[captainnova]

Hey everyone, can't figure out how to start a new thread.. or even if you can. But I've got an 86 Bronco II, with a 4.0 from a 92 Explorer, manual trans. The starter motor has been acting up, and I'm looking to replace it. Whats the easiest way to get it off?

Thanks in advance!

 

[djt]

The starter for an automatic won't fit in the manual cause I've already tried that on my 4.0 swap. It sounds like the wires could be grounding out somewhere. I'd just rerun the small wire cause I had a similar issue in my '68 C10 where the headers burned the coating off and it grounded out causing issues. It could also be the ignition switch sticking cause they are crappy (mine fell out in pieces when i replaced from other issues)