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2.3L ('83-'97) 89 misfire at idle


gatorboy

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I picked up timing belt and idler today gonna try to change it tomorrow and see which way from there, just regretting pulling the front off the motor, probably leave the timing cover off just in case. Still got some stuff to pick up from my other building before I can get it moved.
 


franklin2

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I picked up timing belt and idler today gonna try to change it tomorrow and see which way from there, just regretting pulling the front off the motor, probably leave the timing cover off just in case. Still got some stuff to pick up from my other building before I can get it moved.
On any timing belt job I have done, it is so easy to get it a tooth off. On the camshaft pulley, one side will have the tensioner system, the other side will be the tight side. When you set the belt up, you need to get as much slop as you can out of the belt and make sure it's on the tensioner side of the pulley. or the pulley can move just a little bit when you tension the belt.
 

scotts90ranger

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Just in case you didn't know, on an '89 you don't have to worry about the aux pulley at all, it literally just drives the oil pump...

I would seriously see if some wires are swapped on a coil pack though, that's been the cause of at least 2 hard starting or running issues around here in the last 6 months...
 

gatorboy

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Well I checked the wiring and the main coil that has the coils running parallel to the engine are wired 1 & 4 on the coil closest to the motor and 2 & 3 farthest away, the secondary coil where the 2 coils are parallel to the grill have 1 & 4 at the front of the engine and 2 & 3 are at the back. When I do the unplug test the engine idles the same on the primary coil and the secondary coil, even though I have tinkered with every wire and vacuum hose & cleaned and checked every sensor on it I have been unable to stop the rough idle. Like I said I replaced the icm, the main coil and all plugs and wires, I checked the voltage on the iac, map, throttle sensor and all have been within specs. Like I said I've been throwing money and time at it hoping to be lucky with no luck. Tomorrow I'm going to try to change the timing belt and idler, also check the cam sensor while I have the cover off. Thanks for all the advise, and I'll keep you posted, I may have to postpone my efforts for a little while as we have a hurricane coming up from Florida and we need to prepare, but I will keep puttering along when I can.
 

gatorboy

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I replaced the IAC and the O2 Sensor with no change, my daughter has had it for a couple of days and brought it home today so I put a blankinjg plate behind the EGR and it actually ran worse so I rechecked all the air for a vacuum leak and just to eliminate this I unplugged the TPS, and to my surprise the engine levelled out and idled just as smooth as my Frontier, so I drove it up the road and back and there was a world of difference, it had less power but ran just as smooth as possible. Tomorrow I'm going to replace the TPS and possibly remove the blocking plate on the EGR. Thanks for all the input and advise I received, I feel like this was a group effort and a success, thanks again.
 

gatorboy

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Well today I replaced the TPS and when I plugged it in it was the same old thing, as long as the TPS is unplugged it runs and idles fine but when I plug it in starts skipping at idle, I unplugged the MAP and it's the same except it lopes when idling. I checked the voltage from the TPS and at idle it's about 1 volt and at WOT it's over 4 same as before, there are only maybe 2 more sensors that's MAP and cam sensor, possibly temp sensor, but I'm running out of options pretty fast. If I coule find a Pinto I would change over to carb and distributor, or just junk it and get a real truck.
 

franklin2

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Can you get the voltage on the TPS to be less than 1 volt at idle? You may be borderline too high on that voltage. There is a voltage where the computer goes from idle strategy to cruise strategy.

Can you tell if the injectors are cutting off when you let up on the throttle at high speed? It will cut the injectors off and the engine will be holding back, and then when the road speed gets down to a certain point you will feel a bump as the computer turns the injectors back on. All this happens when you are not touching the gas pedal. If you do not get this, I would think that would be another sign your TPS voltage is too high.
 

gatorboy

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Well I had to modify the TPS to get the voltage down below 1.00, it idles better now but sometimes there is a lag when changing gears and sometimes it jumps when accelerating, I've ordered a new MAP sensor and when complete I will be changed every sensor except the temp sensor (which I unplugged with no effect on it) and the crank sensor. I used the original TPS, but I am wondering what happened to make the voltage high in the first place, the lowest I could get without mod was 1.4 volts and that's with the idle screw ran all the way out and idle was so low it couldn't run? I plugged the TPS up disconnected and the voltage was .525, it also idled well but had big lag when pressing the accelerator?
 

franklin2

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You may be digging yourself a deeper hole by changing out parts. Parts quality now is terrible. That may be your problem with the TPS.
 

gatorboy

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Well I used the original TPS and modified to get the voltage below 1, it's now around 7.8-7.9, if I go any higher with the voltage it doesn't skip at idle but it does jump occasionally while accelerating. I have a new MAP coming, can't find one like the original have to mount on the firewall, will let y'all know what happens.
 

corerftech

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If this is like the 1990 dual plug engine I own——
There is a co pack above the exhaust header on a steel base and also one nested down below the intake manifold in front of driver side.
The exhaust side coil is the primary and fires always. The intake coil fires secondarily per RonD, after 400 rpm.
That being said- were the coils NEW motorcraft or Junkyard pulls?

My coils failed due to the heat shield on the exhaust protecting the coil, cracked and fell down, exposing coil to high heat. Already in an abusive location, I welded up the bracket to make the shield work again. That was the root cause of several issues.

I faced a similar situation with both a dead coil driver in the ICM and a dead coil (as mentioned above).

Measuring the coil resistance was key to finding the dead coil pack. Both primary and secondary need tested. Very simple and easy.
Plug and play tell you nothing.
The DVM is your friend.

If you replaced parts in the right sequence, you may have fried parts repeatedly.
I.e., replaced ICM, dead coil in circuit, lost primary ICM (Coil A) driver line.
Replace a coil, now you have good coil and still dead ICM Coil Driver A.

What dies first, the chicken or the egg??

I’ll add this- I was frazzled and testing/trying everything on a miss with a bubba afflicted engine. In the fray, found lots of compounding issues and corrected them. In testing, I miswired a Coil Pack A (primary) and interchanged 2 cylinders. Left Coil B (intake side) correct. New ICM (old one was dead on line B as mentioned prior).

I drive that car 500 miles one day and fought it to 65-70 mph believing all was right. It’s maiden long voyage after repairs. I mean I had exorcised all the demons, literally, from the engine bay, perfecting it all. Except a pair of spark plug wires!
What else??? I made the error!!! And left it that way fully convinced all was perfect.
Secondary coil tried to and successfully made up for the primary miswire except for the elusive POP at every start like a lean POP.

I found my errror when I installed as a matter of course, new wires.
Holy hell. POP magically gone!!!


Bottom line- potentially you smoked a new ICM and it happens frequently hence the warnings on the box, inside sheet, need for heat sink grease and proper screws installed for it on manifold for cooling, etc.
If you have not checked the coil resistance on primaries and secondaries of the coils, you have overlooked a major concern.

my truck had a new aftermarket coil installed on exhaust at start of repairs.
guess what had the 18k ohm secondary???? Should be closer to 12k. A 0.5 ohm primary winding is correct for a good coil and rather on the high side. 0.3-0.4 is more like it.
1 ohm is a dead coil!!
hell 0.8 ohm is dead!!!

So compounding a bad coil was a Dead ICM line in my case.

A DVM and a piercing test light probe was my friend and even a harbor freight LED for high impedance testing of the data lines as if you use incandescent bulbs in some locations, you will fry the solid state.

There is an ignition diagnostic on Ford ICM’s that includes coil output, ground, spout, and diagnostic line testing. Also simple pictorials on coil resistance tests.

I’ll try to find the link and post. I may have posted in a repair thread so search my posts and maybe the link is still there.

BTw- not much of that coil/drive biz will hold a code for you to trace except SPOUT codes.
If it backfires and sputters from say 1500 rpm till about 2500 rpm while accelerating—— well read my posts. ICM failure, coil pack half dead, and messed up wiring feeding ICM and both coils (mid wired spark plug wires LOL)
Every path on that array has to be traced and verified. It’s really sensitive, especially if bubba ever touched your car before you. I even had noise bleeding in causing abhorrent Tach behavior on the ICM wiring (due to bubba).
 

corerftech

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gatorboy

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