**SOLVED** 5R55E No/Weak Reverse, 1st Engine Braking Works

[Orca]

Just to clarify, you're saying your test verify my CPP/PNP results are as they should be?

Yes, sorry for not being clearer. Your "CPP/PNP" PID results match mine, assuming of course that FORScan also reported "Neutral" for that PID when your gearshift lever was in "N".

Out of curiosity, how'd you manage this without FORScan?

I use a variety of tools, of which FORScan is one. I often write my own programs to do useful things too. Sometimes, I even connect directly to the vehicle (using any of my USB or Bluetooth scantools) and run terminal emulator software to send raw commands and get raw replies.

I guess I don't even understand what this PID is looking at. What is in Neutral or Drive?

I think FORScan's choice of "Neutral" and "Drive" for displaying that PID's 2 states is a rather poor one. It really should say "Park or Neutral" and "Not Park & Not Neutral" (or maybe "Reverse, Drive, 2nd, or 1st"), to better match how it really behaves! I hope my mention of these PIDs didn't derail you too much. They probably have little bearing on your specific problem at this point. I just think that it's good to have a solid understanding of how these PIDs respond, in the normal case, so that when things go wrong, they might be useful in the diagnosis.

Further, you're saying CPP/NDS is likely similar to that Trans Range PID that is incorrectly labeled and/or not functional?

It's hard to explain without things getting confusing and I fear that it would start to get too far OT, but I simply don't trust that "TR" PID with the voltage display in your FORScan Lite screenshots. The "TR3_V" PID, OTOH, seems to be reporting your gear selector position perfectly, per the transmission manuals I've seen.

It's very interesting to see what you've discovered so far with the valve body. Looking forward to seeing/hearing more.

 

[Orca]

I've done some testing with FORScan and I've become somewhat suspicious of a couple of bits of information in that very useful ATRA attachment in post #4 by @Transman304. On my 2004 4.0L 4WD Ranger, FORScan shows this:

This shows me, with engine running, shifting from P -> R -> N -> D -> 2 -> 1, with an additional step when in 'D' of turning O/D off then back on with the switch at the end of the gear selector lever (an act which had no effect at all on any of the monitored PIDs [EDIT: other than the 'TR' PID], BTW). The top red "TR" PID line shows the point in time where the gear selector lever was moved or the "O/D OFF" switch was activated, yielding 8 distinct "zones".

In 'R'everse, shift solenoids 1-4 (where "SS4" = "CCS") on my truck are 1,0,0,0 (or On, Off, Off, Off) but page 8 of that ATRA document shows that they should be 1,0,0,1!

Furthermore, in '2' (manual 2nd gear), shift solenoids 1-4 on my truck are 1,1,0,1 but that ATRA document shows that they should be 1,0,0,1!

But my truck's behavior matches a Sonnax PDF document for their '4R44E-5R55E-ZIP' kit and seems to also match the ATSG manual. So I'm starting to think that the ATRA document is wrong in 2 spots in that table.

Also, although it might be too late to be useful for now and I'm not sure if FORScan Lite offers this, something I forgot to mention is that FORScan for Windows allows control of various PCM "things", including transmission-related things.

I've used this in the past to control various innocent things like the dome light or the horn, but I've never had the guts to try controlling transmission-related items.

FWIW, here's what it looks like under FORScan for Windows (version 2.3.35-beta) with all of the transmission-related items selected for control:

 

[Clayton]

Very interesting. I'm pretty sure Lite doesn't have the feature to control the solenoids, but I can imagine it'd be handy to be able to manually control those parameters to help diagnosis. Kinda what I was doing when unplugging the "brain" to force maximum line pressure and get reverse to work, just a lot less crude.

I just got done using the home built vacuum tester on the VB. I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. None of the bores Sonnax calls out for reverse problems have terrible numbers. The only questionable one is the Inner Reverse Modulator Valve at 16psi of vacuum. I tried to disassemble that valve to check the bore, as called for by Sonnax, but I can't make sense of their instructions. I took out the opposing valve/plug/spring and tried to push the IRMV through from the other side, as this is what I think Sonnax was saying to do, but no dice. The smaller middle spring compresses, and then nothing will budge.

Other than that, I'm not sure I mentioned, the Reverse Solenoid fell out when removing the valve body. I know there's a D-ring update that replaces the O-rings, and I've seen posts where people are struggling to put in the piston with the D-rings installed-- meaning if mine with the O-rings just slid out, it probably wasn't sealing as best as it could.

My plan is to order a new bonded plate/gasket, Reverse Piston D-ring kit, and the IRMV in case I can figure out how to get this one out.

 

[Dirtman]

I've done some testing with FORScan and I've become somewhat suspicious of a couple of bits of information in that very useful ATRA attachment in post #4 by @Transman304. On my 2004 4.0L 4WD Ranger, FORScan shows this:
View attachment 50061
This shows me, with engine running, shifting from P -> R -> N -> D -> 2 -> 1, with an additional step when in 'D' of turning O/D off then back on with the switch at the end of the gear selector lever (an act which had no effect at all on any of the monitored PIDs [EDIT: other than the 'TR' PID], BTW). The top red "TR" PID line shows the point in time where the gear selector lever was moved or the "O/D OFF" switch was activated, yielding 8 distinct "zones".

In 'R'everse, shift solenoids 1-4 (where "SS4" = "CCS") on my truck are 1,0,0,0 (or On, Off, Off, Off) but page 8 of that ATRA document shows that they should be 1,0,0,1!

Furthermore, in '2' (manual 2nd gear), shift solenoids 1-4 on my truck are 1,1,0,1 but that ATRA document shows that they should be 1,0,0,1!

But my truck's behavior matches a Sonnax PDF document for their '4R44E-5R55E-ZIP' kit and seems to also match the ATSG manual. So I'm starting to think that the ATRA document is wrong in 2 spots in that table.

Also, although it might be too late to be useful for now and I'm not sure if FORScan Lite offers this, something I forgot to mention is that FORScan for Windows allows control of various PCM "things", including transmission-related things.

I've used this in the past to control various innocent things like the dome light or the horn, but I've never had the guts to try controlling transmission-related items.

FWIW, here's what it looks like under FORScan for Windows (version 2.3.35-beta) with all of the transmission-related items selected for control:
View attachment 50059

Maybe irrelevant but many things get confused when dealing with 2nd and third gear on this transmission. 2nd (on the shift lever) is actually 3rd on the PCM but physically second on the transmission. I've seen quite a few manuals get this confused and have the wrong specs for second and third. What the computer calls second doesn't actually exist and what the computer calls third is actually second.

You look at one manual at itll give you the correct specs for second and another one is giving you specs for third and calling it second...

Did that make any sense? No? Good now you understand how dumb this transmission is.

 

[Orca]

[...] many things get confused when dealing with 2nd and third gear on this transmission.

Thanks for the info, Dirtman. I agree!

This is getting OT, so I won't get too deeply into it, but I had noticed the oddity on these 5RxxE transmissions over 2 years ago, when I was monitoring some transmission-related PIDs and noticed that my 2004 Ranger never reported (via Mode $22 PID $11B3, "Transmission Gear Status") being in 2nd gear (going 1 -> 3 -> 4 -> 5 -> 4 -> 1). So I've known about this "funky" 2nd gear thing for a while. It's not too bad once you're aware of it, but it was initially a surprise for me. It's all the more reason why I want to understand and document how this transmission works while (for me) it's still working correctly.

Having said that, I still think that the 2 cases that I pointed out above are mistakes in the ATRA manual. I was hoping Transman304 might have had something to say about it, because it seemed rather odd to me.

 

[Clayton]

Oh, well this sucks

Needed to use a small drift to tap out the Inner Reverse Modulator Valve, I could see that it was working, but the section that showed obvious movement went out of view and I tapped a few more times before realizing my drift slipped off in a passage that was wider than the modulator end. So, yeah, this VB is a cool looking paper weight now.

So now the question is, order a reman VB, oooooor take a hard left and drop this LS in there...

 

[Dirtman]

I would just get a JY valve body and rebuild it yourself. Install a transgo/superior kit while its apart, put o-ringed sonnax plugs in it and new solenoids. That's what I did with mine.

 

[Clayton]

Yeah, that could be a good option.

I like the idea of getting my hands dirty, and I have a scrap one I can get familiar with now, but at this point it also sounds nice to just buy one and plug it in.

This is what I was looking at: https://www.amazon.com/Shift-Rite-Transmissions-5R55E-4X4/dp/B01AYFO254

For the price, it's hard to see how I can beat it by purchasing a valve body, solenoid pack, and any possible parts I need to replace. Also, there's a chance that a junkyard VB will need passages reamed, and I'm not equipped for that.

 

[adsm08]

P0trannysfukt.

 

[Dirtman]

My issue with purchasing a rebuilt one like that would be knowing if it was done properly. Who knows if they took the time to actually inspect and measure all the bores or if they just threw it in a parts washer and called it good. It's a total crapshoot buying ANY remanufactured parts, let alone ones with such sophisticated and precise parts...

 

[Clayton]

My issue with purchasing a rebuilt one like that would be knowing if it was done properly. Who knows if they took the time to actually inspect and measure all the bores or if they just threw it in a parts washer and called it good. It's a total crapshoot buying ANY remanufactured parts, let alone ones with such sophisticated and precise parts...

Although I didn't follow this advice, it definitely makes sense. I had a hard time finding a valve body for under $80, so for ~$170 more, I could gamble on a reman'd VB being a bolt up solution. Since I'm not experienced with transmissions, I think the gamble was worth it. That said, it hasn't worked out well so far, but I'm not completely sure it's the VB.

With the new VB I'm getting the following DTC

Code: P0731 - Transmission Gear #1 incorrect ratio

And now all gears seem to be slipping. Not getting engine breaking in man1/2 now when I was before. Man1 seems to be gone as well-- You can feel the shifts in all other gears, but man1 seems to just stay in man 2. SSA,SSB,SSC all read the same as before. When cold I can sometimes get a positive engagement in R, but mostly I need to rev to ~2k to get any movement.

When filling the trans, I noticed the filler neck is rusted out pretty bad, with a noticeable drip. One of the cooler lines also has a small leak, enough to wet the corroded area, but not enough to drip. I disconnected the cooler lines to make sure we weren't dealing with a clogged cooler-- but both lines seemed to flow just fine, indicating neither cooler nor pump are an issue.

Lastly, I noticed, and not sure if this was the case before, EPC voltage fluctuates, mostly between .45 and .65, but from as low as ~.32 to ~.70v with no input-- even with engine off, key on. It does seem to respond somewhat to throttle inputs, voltage dropping as RPM's rise, not it's a noisy signal. Is this normal?

 

[Clayton]

P0trannysfukt.

I just noticed this-- lol :'(

 

[Clayton]

Ok, back at it. Still unsure about EPC V, but I hooked the physical gauge back up to the main line side.

11/28 are the post reman'd Valve body numbers, the "All Conn" are pre. I've got a few suspicions now

1) the filler tube was badly corroded, so much so that it leaked from several spots when filling. Pouring 8 quarts through it may have pulled enough crud into the trans to block things up or gum up the pump. This seems least likely since the contaminant would need to go through the filter first or be sufficient enough to clog up the filter.

2) the VB gasket isn't sealing well. I torqued to spec, but it shipped installed and I didn't check their work.

3) I didn't think much of it at the time, but the truck had been started and briefly revved with the VB on the bench. Now that I know more about the workings of the trans, this was obviously ill-advised. My hunch here is that the pump, likely original with over 200k on it, was on its way out anyways, but its demise was quickened by briefly running dry.

Haven't been able to find much on low line pressure, but good line rise. If anyone has any insight, that'd be appreciated.

At this point, my plan is:

a) replace the filler tube p# F77Z-7A228-AA
b) drop pan, drop VB, remove separator plate, inspect gasket, vacuum test bores as per Sonnax's cheat sheet
c) if b) is fruitless, drop trans and inspect pump
d) if c) is fruitless, dig deeper into the trans and see if anything looks suspicious

 

[Clayton]

Man, what a clusterfuck of a project.

I dropped the VB, pulled the separator, and how many check balls are there? Four? Nope. Three? Nope. Two!? Nope. Come on, there's gotta be at least... Nope, they left all the check balls out. Just sent an email, let's see if they stand by their work. **paging Dirtman for an "I told you so"**

Good News: The valve body is seemingly not the issue. Truck drives fine in all forward gears.

Bad news: still no/weak reverse with checkballs in place. I did a bit more diagnosis, and noticed that it catches reverse every once in a while, seemingly after I drive a bit. Further, with the TCM disconnected and the resulting high pressure, I seem to almost always get a weak-but-usable-on-flat-ground reverse at the least, and maybe 1/5 of the times shifting into R I get a positive clunk and the truck will start to creep as you let off the brake.

 

[Dirtman]

Depending on what exactly they did to the VB, I'm pretty certain that when I modified mine installing a "shift kit", part of the procedure was removing some of the check balls. I'm trying to dig up the instruction manual and pics I took when I did it to verify that. There was alot of moving things around, replacing this with that, drilling holes, making holes smaller, I can't remember it all.