4x4 toe out camber issue

[Dant1999]

Hey guys I'm new to the forum and was wondering if anyone has any info or ideas on my ranger it's a 99 4x4 off road it has a 4" body lift I'm running 33- 12.50 tires and have my upper A-arms adjusted all the way out but still have toe out problems anyone encounter this before? Or have any ideas

 

[19Walt93]

Moving the arms out will increase positive camber, the toe is adjusted on the tierods

 

[Dant1999]

Ok thanks I will try that I've taken it to a few shops and they couldn't figure it out

 

[adsm08]

If you are going to shops that can't figure out that toe is adjusted with tie rods and not control arms you need to find new shops.

 

[19Walt93]

I agree. Not a tire store or a chain like Midas. Either a dealer or a good independent garage that someone you know has used. All alignments aren't equal,either. I hired an alignment "tech" who had worked at a local tire store for years and supposedly knew his stuff, he was certainly fast. The problem was that if he saw everything "in the green"- meaning within the allowable range- he'd leave it there. A real tech who had also done alignments insisted everything be set to the preferred spec, he told me he could set the camber and toe so that they'd both be "green" and the tires would be worn out in a month. I would also ask for a before and after printout.

 

[adsm08]

I agree. Not a tire store or a chain like Midas. Either a dealer or a good independent garage that someone you know has used. All alignments aren't equal,either. I hired an alignment "tech" who had worked at a local tire store for years and supposedly knew his stuff, he was certainly fast. The problem was that if he saw everything "in the green"- meaning within the allowable range- he'd leave it there. A real tech who had also done alignments insisted everything be set to the preferred spec, he told me he could set the camber and toe so that they'd both be "green" and the tires would be worn out in a month. I would also ask for a before and after printout.

I have to constantly explain this and that WinToe will f**k you every time to the guys I work with. I am the only one in the shop who uses the bar graphs to set toe and not WinToe and I am also the only one who isn't brining most of their alignments back in two or three times before they go down the road straight.

None of them seem to understand how to use the bar graphs to set toe and I'm like "Guys, this isn't that hard, its exactly the same except you can see both sides at the same time and you know if something changed".

The one guy who is young and inexperienced, but he just doesn't get alignments and has frequent issues with things not tracking straight. I think I finally got it through to him the other week when he brought one back in again. He had it back up on the machine and had it all set up and couldn't figure out why it wasn't straight since everything was green. He had the wheel straight ahead and .2* steer ahead, but WinToe said it was good.

I explained what the graphs actually meant, and what he was looking at on that main screen. I told him that green "is good" in that a green bar means that corner shouldn't wear a tire, but having the car track straight with the wheel level is more about balancing the sides than about having everything green.

I can set up a front end to go straight down the road and not wear tires with the steering wheel turned 90* in either direction. I can also set it up to have the wheel perfectly level, not have it pull a hair in either direction (road crown permitting) and wear a brand new set of tires to the cords in 500 miles. Just keep the caster and cross caster in spec and keep the camber and toe balanced.


The only time I don't screw with camber or caster when they are out or borderline is if there is no specified adjustments. It always means something is worn or tweaked and it is better to fix it properly than try to band-aid the problem by moving something else. My experience with that is that you almost always introduce some other issue that wasn't there before, even if you get the numbers in spec.

 

[19Walt93]

We had one alignment guy from when he returned from WW II until the mid 80's when he retired. He was a good guy, knew front end geometry and understood how it worked. He was also set in his ways and hated to change the camber blocks in TIB and TTB trucks, so he'd tweak the toe so the tires wore evenly-but quickly- and blame the tires. Give him something with a fully adjustable suspension and he could nail it. We had one customer who complained about his car wearing tires and pulling left. He must have weighed 350 lbs. I have no idea how he worded it to avoid pissing off the customer but he got him to sit in the car while he aligned the front end. No more tire wear or pull.

 

[gw33gp]

I can set up a front end to go straight down the road and not wear tires with the steering wheel turned 90* in either direction.

I prefer my car to not go straight down the road when I turn the steering well in either direction.

 

[adsm08]

We had one alignment guy from when he returned from WW II until the mid 80's when he retired. He was a good guy, knew front end geometry and understood how it worked. He was also set in his ways and hated to change the camber blocks in TIB and TTB trucks, so he'd tweak the toe so the tires wore evenly-but quickly- and blame the tires. Give him something with a fully adjustable suspension and he could nail it. We had one customer who complained about his car wearing tires and pulling left. He must have weighed 350 lbs. I have no idea how he worded it to avoid pissing off the customer but he got him to sit in the car while he aligned the front end. No more tire wear or pull.

I've had those. The guy I learned alignment from was great, never had a come back, even on the ones we did with a tape measure.

Except this one van. It was a mid-200s E350, Pete would set it up, it would go down the road perfectly straight, then be back the next week with a pull, but none of the numbers ever changed. Here the guy had a few hundred pounds of construction equipment, supplies, and tools that he regularly carried in the van that he was taking out before bringing it in for alignment thinking all that weight would mess with the machine. We had a lot of heavier and picky customers at that shop. We'd get them to sit in the car by telling them that we will get the best, most precise result if they sit in the driver's seat and hold the wheel exactly where they want it while we set the front end.

I also had a Fiesta that I had to regularly deal with clutch issues on. It was owned by a woman who must have been 300 lbs herself, and she lived in my town. You never ever saw her without her equally large friend and this skinny dude who must have still weighed about 125. So we are looking in the area of 725-750 lbs this car is carrying all the time. The weight limit for a Fiesta is 600 lbs.


I have one in from GSA right now, 18 or 19 Explorer Interceptor, LF and RR toe are the only angles in spec. Front camber is barely in the red on both sides, RF caster is why out, but not signs they hit anything hard enough to knock it all out of whack like this. I'm going to adjust the front camber, which I am dubious on because the only adjustment possible is to take the struts out and turn the strut tops 180 degrees. No idea if that will bring it in spec or put it farther out.

 

[19Walt93]

Make sure to save a printout, if the right front caster is way out he may be slamming into the curb in a diagonal parking spot. We've had companies bring us empty trucks to align that come back with outside edge wear because they always carry something heavy when they use it for work. Once I convinced them to leave the load in the bed we were able to align it properly.