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4BT Swap in 99 4x4 (offroad edition)


southaw

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Quite a drive.

Exactly what I'm planning on. This is a practical build not a mean machine.

Also mine won't go any bigger than 33's I don't think. The 31s are beautiful at near-stock height, but as soon as I add 2-3" during the axle swaps it'll probably need the extra space filled up a bit to keep the same style truck I'm going for.

This truck won't have stacks, and it won't be rolling coal all day.
 


Rock Auto 5% Discount Code: 70D65189E6D8FF: January 5th, 2022

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Going to have to follow this one a bit...
Stock diesel is getting hard to find parts for...
 

southaw

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Well, here's a little update.

Was going to be picking up the new axles this week (assuming they didn't sell out from under me) BUT.. My local courthouse took ~$1,200 from me instead. Guess I've been driving on a suspended license for 10 months, who knew? Not me. Don't even ask what the lawyer cost me to get out of jail time. (Not kidding, I was looking at jail time for this accident!!)
Lawyer says just pay it and don't fight the ignorance part, so that's what I did.

I've got my driving privileges back, now to get the money around again. Should be a week or 2 more now, could be longer because they just gutted an f350 in the shop for a rebuild and it's in my spot now :rollseyes: the guys...

Will try to leave updates, but right now it's going to be awhile and this'll probably go dormant. I'm fighting my IAC's mating call right now along with the MAF that failed last week, the belt tensioner assembly that jumped up and hid behind my oil filter while driving and I just had a wire fail intermittently so I had to dump new plugs/wires into her as well!! It's been about a $2,000 month so far of unexpected bills, so I'm a bit set back, at age 19 my income isn't ideal. Swap is still happening though. Uncle Sam owes me some money right about now too ;)
 

jdirtbiker

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Looking forward to seeing where you go with this. My 4.0 ohv is on its way out, not sure how much longer she'll last. Seriously considering the 4bt, so keep us posted!
 

JoshT

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Guess I've been driving on a suspended license for 10 months, who knew? Not me.
Don't you just love how they will up and suspend your license over any little thing, and not tell you. They got me once for dropping insurance on a vehicle. Didn't say anything to me about it just dropped it even though I had 3 other vehicles registered, tagged, and insured in my name. Only reason I insured and registered it for that month was to transfer the tag over from the totaled truck to the new body. The vehicle was sitting in my back yard in a dozen pieces. Was when I bought it, was when I registered it, still is today. Come on, three other vehicles registered, tagged, and insured, so why assume that I'm driving around in the one that isn't? Fortunately I didn't have to deal with the law other than informing them that the vehicle was "parked" and unusable.
 

bobbywalter

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UPDATE: Re-thinking things quite a bit recently. Actually thinking IFS is going to be better, but don't know all that much about IFS under heavy weight. :icon_thumby:

Ok, for starters I threw the "offroad edition" in as a joke, because that adds what, a chrome bumper?

Introduction:
I'm a ~20 year old man from Indiana, to my left outside this house is a cornfield, to the right there is a cornfield, and straight out there is a been field. Good enough picture?
I'm a professional web developer, full time. But I've always been into cars/trucks/bikes just as much. I have access to many massive arms and a full blown auto shop to get the job done.
This will be my build thread.


I'm finally getting around financially where I can afford to do some major work to this truck.
Truck:
1999 Extended Cab, 4 door, ~182K miles
4.0 OHV with an Automatic (runs perfectly)
28 spline 4.10 on the back, some shitty 4.10 IFS on the front.
4x4 (vacuum hubs... They work sometimes :) )
31s on stock 16" explorer-style rims (I like em!)

Intent:
I want a daily/semi-daily driver, the enduro takes over most of the summer so I'm getting 58mpg, but 30mpg through the winter in the truck sounds wonderful. Either way, raise it above 20mpg and I'd be happy.
I will not be trying to squeeze every last bit of power out of this engine, it's going to stay around 110-160 in the long run, that's good enough for my purposes.

I WANT WHAT I WANT
Also I don't want to end up doing a ton of fab work for every part of the truck, I can do it, but I don't want to be excessive.

I'm looking to swap a 4bt for my 4.0, then rebuild the 4.0 (even though it still is great) and buy roller to throw that and my old auto tranny in, then either sell/play with, whatever I decide.

First of all, yes, the axles must go. :icon_confused:Looking at Dana 44s but don't think I actually need to go that heavy. Other options? I don't want to skimp, but I think the explorers 31 spline axles should do the trick. if I'm staying at a more mellow power, but should I use them? I'm leaning towards "HD is better" in all aspects of this swap.
What I know for sure is that both axles must go, and the front is going to a solid axle. What kind of suspension issues might I run into? Is there anything that sticks out as something not to do?

Transmission needs to end up attached to a rod sticking out of the middle of my cab's floor, i.e. I want a real transmission, and I want a manual.
What options do I have here? I'd like to use a Zf, but I think I only get one option for the small block version. I could go with something out of an F150, but again, heavier duty is going to be better. I just wonder how much fab work it'd cost me. The truck is going to sit about 3-4" taller because of how I end up doing the SAS, meaning I don't want a huge body lift to fit my transmission/transfer case underneath the truck. If there's one thing I don't want to skimp on it's my transmission.

Engine itself is going to be a tight fit obviously, but I have an engine crane and a pole barn with 3 auto bays and a 10,000lb lift, so this job should be easily manageable as far as space/brute strength to put the damn thing in.
What do I need to watch out for when buying one of these? I'm not dead set on buying a pristine, perfectly tuned and running engine, in fact I don't want that at all.
I'd like to purchase one that needs a little work, one that I can pour my sweat into and watch come to life. I'd even go as far as a total rebuild, but I don't want to end up with a cracked block or similar. I'm thinking I will buy one I can hear run, and hopefully avoid any catastrophic issues later on.
I've seen the build threads and done my research, this has been a plan for 3 months now. No one says much about the engine mounts. Why? Does she bolt right up? This is probably my most important question.

I don't plan on having A/C, I don't use it anyway. Windows are down if it's too hot, hell, windows are down in the winter and I use the heat to balance it out. This isn't a problem for me.

Fuel tank is another topic, but I can't imagine it's going to be a tough one in comparison.


I think I have the rest pretty well handled.
I'm looking to buy the engine itself next month-ish (gotta find a deal, we know how it is). Then I'll start with the rebuild on that engine.


Also, it's worth noting that I am taking an entire week's vacation to do the bulk of the work. I get vacation so why not use it, right? Aside from that I'm a pretty open scheduled guy. Work is 9-5 M-F, so I have plenty of time to actually do work on this truck.

The motorcycle will get me by for transportation during all of this as she has just seen a complete rebuilt, along with a new clutch, exhaust and so on :)

Current pic of truck:


based on your suggestion of low hp and normal tires....110-160....you dont have to do anything to your rig save for cranking the t bars up a bit and maybe some heavier shocks.


dropping a stockish 4bt in with the trans it comes with from the donor is exactly like that. sure fitting it will be more then an afternoon chore for most...it wont bolt right up to the stock mounts. but if this is something a guy think is even remotely difficult...then a suspension lift for the same guy is probably a major project that would frazzle that guy let alone an entire powertrain swap.

the balljoints and bearings out front may have some more wear over normal shortening the life a little bit.......but easy to deal with and just buy lifetime parts.

awsay from that is the engine itself....they are exceptionally loud, vibrating little buggars...even with hydro mounts you know its a 4 whizzer diesel....

geared properly and in solid tune they will surpass any smallblock v8 in economy and thoroughly embarrass a typical 302 swap. more importantly will operate on a wide range of fuel stock.

at 10 k miles per year on a perfect running engine that does the job fine....any swap is a waste of time. thats just the reality.



for your proposed goals of operation....axle swap is a waste of time.

just run the 4bt as is....

this engine auction with ford trans
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CUMMINS-4BT-3-9-TURBO-DIESEL-ENGINE-with-Ford-transmission-4bta-/141210084444?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20e0c6e45c&vxp=mtr


This auction is for one running engine that includes Ford Manual transmission. The engine itself is complete and has the complete serpentine belt assembly including alternator. Also has turbo, sensors/ senders, motor mounts, and starter. I do not pull parts off these engines unless requested for a lesser price. The injection system is complete along with lift pump. Please let me know if you do or do not need power steering pump and vacuum pump. These engines are coming out of running trucks, not junk vehicles so mileage is not an issue.


its pretty typical....3 grand would get it to my house...i have what i need to make it go into anything for literally next to nothing.....


oil pan modifications and possibly coolant plumbing would offer a challenge or two....very minor though....


it will run happily on properly prepared used motor oils......i run typically 20-30 percent blends to take my pump costs below unleaded and get much better economy over the small block i replaced with my diesel swap...

so even with only 10 k per year....depending on how you fuel your diesel, it could even put money in your pocket if you got a powertrain under 2 thousand dollars and have a truck getting 15 mpg.

:dunno:

this can be easy or impossible.....up to you.:icon_thumby:
 

bobbywalter

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sawzall?
Tire Size
33-44
My credo
it is easier to fix and understand than "her"





that is the biggest crock of shit i have watched steam for some time:shok:


apparently as the forums progressed there my username got left behind...not up to registering to pick through that....



I agree 100%. its a $4,000 swap. that in reality would take someone several years of driving it 250 miles a month to even break even on the initial expense of swapping it in.
Dude, I would bet money the vast majority of project rangers here get driven far less than 250 miles per month. Most diesel-swapped rigs aren't 300 mile/week daily drivers

I'm comparing apples-to-apples gas v8 swap vs. 4bt swap

Okay, if you had read my thread you would have seen my figures of if a, person drove it the commonly-accepted average of 1,000 miles/month...the answer is 2 years to break even






pretty sad and narrow apples to apples 4bt vs v8 comparo..... 250 miles per month???...is that all any of the engine swap guys are driving??? sometimes i have to drive 1500 miles per day....yeah.....23 hours straight driving one way just to go to work.... but with this narrow view based on some sort of reality you have access to, it can make sense what you postulate in the thread you linked..


its pretty flawed though as i highly doubt the vast majority of swaps get driven 250 miles per month..


the combinations are endless, so i cant even see any of your points having merit gas to diesel.....in a low rider 2wd truck swapping a diesel may not makes sense for most.....but a big tire higher riding 4x4 that is a daily driver, its the best solution... if you want power and economy for those 35 in tires and 6 in suspension lift.(i know everybody does not want both power and economy but just humor me) but if you want ok economy and 400# of torque.... you sure as fawk should not use a windsor engine...an ext cab 4x4 ranger with 35's and 24 mpg???with a 302???


hey, trail only truck or trail mainly....diesel sucks for that....1st guy to stand in that line....i dont like the n/a 6.5 off road at all compared to my mild and healthy 302.






I have a 4bt in my garage that I initially picked up for my Ranger. I took my old engine out and set the 4bt in. I quickly realized this is by far a "bolt in" situation. I quickly decided my Ranger wasn't good enough for the 4bt. Its extremely heavy, doesn't fit that great, and it isn't worth it. My 4bt sits in my garage now waiting for a vehicle to go in.

You aren't stuck using a small block zf. 4bts have 4 adapter plates that fit 4 different styles of transmissions. Dodge (6bts have this plate too), Small block
ford, Chevy, and SAE. Not to mention you can buy the adapters to run different transmissions such as big block/diesel zfs but are pricey.

Sorry, but a small block zf will not fit in your transmission tunnel. I am trying to squeeze one in my truck now.

I'd go to 4btswaps.com and do the majority of your research there.


i hear the same thing about 302 swaps all the time....i have finished dozens of swaps people started and could not figure out how to get it done over the last 25 years....


why wont a zf fit in the trans tunnel? your referring directly to the 4bt? ican see it not working well if the engine is set up high...


i have quite a bit of respect for you bailing out after the look see fit-up. hate to see ya spend 2 years trying to get it in there only to drive it 250 miles per month.

pretty tough read for a guy like me.
 

southaw

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Don't you just love how they will up and suspend your license over any little thing, and not tell you. They got me once for dropping insurance on a vehicle. Didn't say anything to me about it just dropped it even though I had 3 other vehicles registered, tagged, and insured in my name. Only reason I insured and registered it for that month was to transfer the tag over from the totaled truck to the new body. The vehicle was sitting in my back yard in a dozen pieces. Was when I bought it, was when I registered it, still is today. Come on, three other vehicles registered, tagged, and insured, so why assume that I'm driving around in the one that isn't? Fortunately I didn't have to deal with the law other than informing them that the vehicle was "parked" and unusable.
Yup. They'll get ya! Pretty ridiculous. I could've seen jail time haha.
 

southaw

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based on your suggestion of low hp and normal tires....110-160....you dont have to do anything to your rig save for cranking the t bars up a bit and maybe some heavier shocks.


dropping a stockish 4bt in with the trans it comes with from the donor is exactly like that. sure fitting it will be more then an afternoon chore for most...it wont bolt right up to the stock mounts. but if this is something a guy think is even remotely difficult...then a suspension lift for the same guy is probably a major project that would frazzle that guy let alone an entire powertrain swap.

...

...

...

so even with only 10 k per year....depending on how you fuel your diesel, it could even put money in your pocket if you got a powertrain under 2 thousand dollars and have a truck getting 15 mpg.

:dunno:

this can be easy or impossible.....up to you.:icon_thumby:
Well, I typed out a massive reply and I guess I forgot to hit submit..


Short version:
Sweet. I thought it would work too but got mixed answers, I realize it's odd to want to stay around stock power. Either way, the front end needs beefed up just a little, I probably won't ever even go for 33s, so it's not that bad. I guess I'll look at options for retaining the current setup but increasing reliability.

What transmissions will fit? If I stay stock I'm not swapping axles, and I won't be gaining a lot of lift. No issues?

Transfer case, what are my options? I hadn't seriously considered staying mostly stock, but I'm thinking about it. Honestly I doubt it'll happen this year at this point if I swap everything.
 


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