4.0 OHV standalone questions..

[Shoddy Cologne]

Soo i kind of jumped into this without reeeeally digging into it. I grabbed a 99 mazda 4.0ohv engine harness and ecu. To swap into my Merkur Xr4ti. I know now that it has PATS and returnless fuel system which will not work to build a standalone. I believe i need a 96-97 harness and manual ecu as well as the return fuel rail. Is this correct? Im also concerned with the VSS putting the engine into a "limp" mode because there is not an easy way that i know of to get it to work with the Type 9 trans that i intend to use. Will any of this work or is it a lost cause? Thanks.

 

[bobbywalter]

vss is not necessarily going to put it in limp.


off idle issues and certain dashpotting for sure due to no vss. but the merkur units i have seen take the standard small speedo drive so just using the ranger vss will be just fine.

not sure what you want to do but 91 is the dumbest system....the later stuff is sefi.

 

[Shoddy Cologne]

Not sure what you mean by dashpotting. Im just looking to get what ive got running the simplest way. I know the eec-iv setup would be a bit more forgiving but i read here that the later engines dont run that good with earlier ecu setups.

 

[bobbywalter]

dash potting is just off load idle control....the idle air bypass system... stalling issues can arise with no vss signal. the boo can be important as well.

the later engines have different heads amongst other things that can be troublesome for odd running issues when say using a 90 eec and wiring with a 99 engine....

it is the main reason with the 4.0 i prefer to do a swap with a known matched setup.

 

[RonD]

PATS can be deleted, by a programmer, as can the automatic trans software if the PCM(ecu) was from an automatic Ranger

Not sure why returnless would be an issue, just need an inline fuel pump for the 55psi needed

The 1999 Mazda transmission just needs a new tail shaft housing, from a 1988-1997 M5OD-R1, assuming 2WD manual
And a speedo worm drive, hole for this was deleted in 1998 and up castings, but the tail shaft still has the place for the worm gear, and if the Merkur Xr4ti used a speedo cable then you could put that back in place along with the VSS
Pictures here: https://therangerstation.com/tech_library/speedometer.shtml

A few here may even have that sitting in their garage, they could only find a 2WD trans so had to swap tail shaft and housing to fit their 4x4 transfer case

Not sure what you mean by "stand alone" in this case?

But PCM and engine don't need any connection to the vehicle
You may want to connect engine temp , oil pressure and tach to dash, but pretty simple to do

 

[bobbywalter]

PATS can be deleted, by a programmer, as can the automatic trans software if the PCM(ecu) was from an automatic Ranger

Not sure why returnless would be an issue, just need an inline fuel pump for the 55psi needed




The 1999 Mazda transmission just needs a new tail shaft housing, from a 1988-1997 M5OD-R1, assuming 2WD manual
And a speedo worm drive, hole for this was deleted in 1998 and up castings, but the tail shaft still has the place for the worm gear, and if the Merkur Xr4ti used a speedo cable then you could put that back in place along with the VSS
Pictures here: https://therangerstation.com/tech_library/speedometer.shtml

Not sure what you mean by "stand alone" in this case?

But PCM and engine don't need any connection to the vehicle
You may want to connect engine temp , oil pressure and tach to dash, but pretty simple to do

return-less manifold with just a pump feeding it in line will have some issues....you need the bypass regulator in the tank so it circulates properly and dont vaporlock like a mofo... return-less can be two styles...demand voltage or just has the regulator and bypass in the tank to save from having another line needlessly running down the chassis...


the 9 trans he has is the euro trash they come with...ones i worked with had the normal speedo hole...just use the ranger vss.



stand alone is exactly that.....engine running on a pallet. so my vote would be late 94 eec4 complete with a tune.

 

[RonD]

Fuel pressure sensor in the tank on Rangers is same as throttle sensor, shares 2 of the 3 wires, lol, just a variable resistor signal so shouldn't be too hard to spoof........if needed

And I am not sure computer even uses that signal, never seen a code for it or anyone needing to replace it?

You could use in line pump with a return line, if it was a concern


I think I read something adsm08 posted about using the 1998-2000 engine with older PCM, not just the heads the whole engine, and it was a don't do it because of the exhaust ports

 

[bobbywalter]

having run 440 mopar with a eec4 a9m, theres plenty of ways to skin the cat. i hate pats and deleting it is the best way to go in any case as far as i am concerned....but this seems a budget get going question and my answer swings to that bias.

i dont know all of the quirks...actually i do know the physical, just dont g.a.f. enough to line up dates with the 4.0....but it is too complicated for me to spend time explaining.....


just the instance with the fast burn heads with bank fire dont get along as well......it is a trianwreck for the uninitiated.....sefi is easier to deal. of course the interface ability for diy with eec5 is vastly superior to the eec4.


just dead heading a returnless system was my point earlier. as long as there is a regulater in line in the tank...... running a straight power pump that meets pressure and volume requirements is fine. if a guy just straight deadheads a bad ass pump you generally are going to have some issues.

 

[bobbywalter]

oh...initially i thought he was swapping a complete 4.0 engine as well...after re-reading it i am still not clear on that....but if his plan is to run the 4.0 electronics for edis and boosted 2.9...the mid eec4 may be the easy button.

 

[adsm08]

A mechanical returnless fuel system is the easiest to make. You just need to change the line ends so the car will accept an FG1036, or other 3-ported fuel filter.

Those filters have the pressure bypass built into them and send excess fuel back to the tank via the smaller return port on the rear of the filter, and just run the pump full time.

 

[Shoddy Cologne]

Okay sorry for not being more clear. I am swapping out my 2.3t for a 4.0ohv from a 99 mazda into my Merkur. I'm just asking for the best/simplest way to get the it to run correctly.

I have the complete engine harness and auto pcm, i dont have anything from under the dash except the obd2 port. I believe i can figure out all the wiring if i can find the correct wiring diagram.

I currently have the engine in the car bolted to the Type9 5 speed trans to fab engine mounts. I have mostly everything figured out (hoses, fan, exhaust etc) except how to make the pcm work properly.

 

[Shoddy Cologne]

Thank you for your suggestions. Ive been reading and trying to figure this all out. Been reading for several hours to no real conclusion.
Could i just swap the returnless fuel rail for a return style, add a walbro pump and and adjustable FPR and adjust it to spec?

Or do as adsm08 has said and just use the FG1036 and possibly the stock ranger pump sending unit?

To get around pats ill be looking for a 98 ranger mt pcm.

Ive got what ive got if it isnt going to work then im back to the drawing board. Ive got about 7 months to get this thing ready for Carlilse 2020 and very much like to make the 5hour drive to that event in this car with 4.0 power.

 

[RonD]

Yes, you can use a 1997 or earlier 4.0l return system, upper and lower intake, and a 1996/97 PCM , not 1998, and get it from a Manual trans vehicle.
It has an FPR on the fuel rail already, you just need a pump that can maintain 40psi pressure at full demand, the 1997 and older run 30-40psi fuel pressure

The 1998-2000 PCMs will be tuned for 55psi, so will set Lean codes running a 35psi system

But.................you may be able to use your current PCM because I think you will want it "tuned/programmed" in any case
Because I assume you will not be running an EVAP system?
Or an EGR system?
So delete those, and the PATS, and automatic trans, and set it up for lower fuel pressure

You might be able to run larger injectors on the return system, and not do the "tune"
You would have to do the Math, lol
Current injector LBS/hour at 55psi = Larger injector LBS/hour at 35psi = fuel flow from injector when opened
So computer won't notice a difference

But doesn't address PATS or automatic issue

 

[Shoddy Cologne]

Yes, you can use a 1997 or earlier 4.0l return system, upper and lower intake, and a 1996/97 PCM , not 1998, and get it from a Manual trans vehicle.
It has an FPR on the fuel rail already, you just need a pump that can maintain 40psi pressure at full demand, the 1997 and older run 30-40psi fuel pressure

The 1998-2000 PCMs will be tuned for 55psi, so will set Lean codes running a 35psi system

But.................you may be able to use your current PCM because I think you will want it "tuned/programmed" in any case
Because I assume you will not be running an EVAP system?
Or an EGR system?
So delete those, and the PATS, and automatic trans, and set it up for lower fuel pressure

You might be able to run larger injectors on the return system, and not do the "tune"
You would have to do the Math, lol
Current injector LBS/hour at 55psi = Larger injector LBS/hour at 35psi = fuel flow from injector when opened
So computer won't notice a difference

But doesn't address PATS or automatic issue

I dont think using the 96 or 97 will work out to great because they have different heads. I could be wrong but i believe a few have tried that with poor results. As far as evap and egr Im not so much worried about CELs or codes coming up as long as it doesnt make it run open loop or in a limp mode. Ill have them removed from ecu once i know everything else is working ok if i can find someone to do that.

 

[PetroleumJunkie412]

What are you doing with the 2.3t engine?