2035

[Eddo Rogue]

Kinda like how laptop batteries that live on the chargers don't work so well when they leave the charger compared to like a cell phone battery that gets exercised regularly.

They need to cycle from full to empty and back to full. Just going full to almost full back to full hurts the battery long term.

Yes this +1. I was trying to think of a good analogy lol.

 

[fastpakr]

Holding them at full capacity is definitely an issue for any lithium battery. No question there either.

 

[RonD]

Its called Battery Memory and all batteries have this and all are different in the manner that's best suited for them
So there is not one correct answer for all types of batteries

Car batteries do NOT like long slow discharging, they are designed to start the engine, high amp drain quickly, then to be recharged right away, and to stay charged

RV or Deep Cycle batteries like to be drained slow and long, then recharged once below say 25%

Specific use is how batteries are deigned
I think most EV vehicles will have a "break in" period for new buyers to follow, just like new ICE vehicle can have
For EV they may recommend running the batteries down low before re-charging the first few times
Some EV battery packs are probably pre-conditioned that way "at the factory", slow long drain and re-charge cycles

 

[oldgeek]

Its called Battery Memory and all batteries have this and all are different in the manner that's best suited for them
So there is not one correct answer for all types of batteries

Car batteries do NOT like long slow discharging, they are designed to start the engine, high amp drain quickly, then to be recharged right away, and to stay charged

RV or Deep Cycle batteries like to be drained slow and long, then recharged once below say 25%

Specific use is how batteries are deigned
I think most EV vehicles will have a "break in" period for new buyers to follow, just like new ICE vehicle can have
For EV they may recommend running the batteries down low before re-charging the first few times
Some EV battery packs are probably pre-conditioned that way "at the factory", slow long drain and re-charge cycles

What is not considered is that every time an EV brakes, it's going through a charging cycle, albeit a very short one.

 

[oldgeek]

This might prove better, but there is still the environmental impact of obtaining materials.

The Holy Grail Is Here: A Stable, Solid-State, Lithium-Metal Battery

It could fully charge electric vehicles in just 10 minutes.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[sgtsandman]

I don't know about EV batteries but with things like radio batteries, they only have so many charge cycles in them. Even if you follow good charge, discharge practices to keep the cells properly balanced, they are only good for so many cycles. We tried to tell this to the old mill hunkies we worked with at the airport. They would use the radio long enough to say what they had to say and it went right back into the charger. Then they would complain about how they would only get about 5-10 minutes out of the battery.

 

[Roert42]

That’s the think I don’t really like about battery powered equipment.

If I only need it once In a while the battery is either always dead or I leave the battery plugged in and they don’t last that long. It’s almost easier to deal with a stationary or corded unit for that rate occasion I needed.

Give your old hunkies a base station.

 

[DeathRanger]

These are not the batteries of old. They have way more sophisticated technology in them.

Lithium ion care batteries are not like power tool NiCad batteries. they do not have a charge memory and do not require full discharge cycles.

The proper way to care for an EV battery is to stay between 20% and 80% charge as often as possible.
The best way to maintain the EV battery is to leave it plugged in when not in use. The battery management system (BMS) has all the smarts to keep the battery healthy.

The only other recommendation is to avoid temperature extremes above 60° C or below -30° C for more than 24 hours at a time.

 

[DeathRanger]

WHAT IS A CHARGING CYCLE?
A charging cycle is a full charge and discharge of a rechargeable battery. When you drain a battery when powering a gadget, you discharge it since the battery was charged before usage or purchase.

The standard technique for measuring rechargeable battery charge cycles is the number of charge cycles that a battery can tolerate before performance decreases.

The frequency of charge cycles, voltage, and battery life (milliamp hours) are all essential performance metrics for rechargeable batteries. A charging cycle might be a complete charge to discharge or a succession of partial drains that add up to the battery's capacity.


Most electric vehicle batteries have an estimated 1500 to 2000 charge cycles

 

[RonD]

EV batteries last minimum 10 years 150k miles, most should do 20 years, 300k miles
Most are warrantied 100k miles or 8 years

Once a week recharge would be 52 cycles a year and 520 cycles in 10 years
Every 2 days would be 1,825 cycles in 10 years

Average car does 14k miles a year
If EV did 250 miles per charge, that would be 56 charge ups per year, 560 in 10 years
If you charged it after only 100miles that's 112 charges a year and 1,120 in 10 years

So 1,500 to 2,000 wouldn't be out of line even though it doesn't read like a lot, it is 20 years+ of recharge cycles

 

[stmitch]

For what it's worth, Tesla says to plug in nightly and top off. With the caveat that you should probably keep the charge limit set at 90% for daily use:

Home Charging - Frequently Asked Questions

Learn more about how to charge a Tesla at home, including home charger installation costs, equipment options and how long it takes to fully charge a Tesla battery.

www.tesla.com

 

[stmitch]

The batteries in swapping stations aren't fast charged.

Right. Sorry if I wasn't clear. The point was that battery swaps that take 5-10 minutes had more appeal in 2015 when it took a couple of hours to add adequate range. Now that most new EVs are adding 75+ miles of range in ~15-20 minutes on a fast charger, the battery swap looks less appealing. It's faster, cheaper and easier for the OEM to just focus on adding more fast chargers than to continue to invest in swapping that had low interest to begin with.

So Tesla chose to shut down the battery swap program because there was limited demand and they figured that as fast charging got quicker and quicker the appeal of battery swap was diminished further.

 

[stmitch]

I read an article about the affect of temperature on EV batteries, it said dropping from 70 degrees to 40 degrees lowered the range by 24%. We have months below 40 degrees when heat, lights, defrost, wipers, and often seat heaters are in use further lowering the range.

Just a reminder that ICEs lose a similarly big chunk of their range in cold weather too. (fueleconomy.gov says 15-24%):

Fuel Economy in Cold Weather

Cold weather can reduce your fuel economy. Our tips can help improve your gas mileage when temperatures drop.

www.fueleconomy.gov

The difference is that it's usually easy to find a refueling location for an ICE, and that process typically takes 5-10 minutes. So your issue seems more to be with infrastructure and familiarity than it is with what's powering the vehicle. As fast chargers are added, and fast charging times continue to fall the range loss in cold weather becomes a smaller and smaller issue.

But lets also remember that unlike an ICE, the EV owner probably starts each day with hundreds of miles of range thanks to a fresh top off while parked overnight. So for those that charge where they park overnight or at work, the loss of range never matters outside of long trips. So yeah, driving across the country to grandma's house for the holidays could take longer with an EV than an ICE. But for most people's daily use, the loss of range is less of an issue than it would be in an ICE.

 

[19Walt93]

If you are doing "What ifs" then in a blackout electric pumps at local gas stations are also off, so unless your ICE "has a full charge" you are also stuck

Aren't there generators in Canada, too?

 

[RonD]

Yes, we use them to sell electricity to Calif

Most are hydro-electric but we tell the Californians we use Moose and Beavers on tread mills and moose and beaver food is expensive so not a price gouge just expensive food
But the jokes on us, they default on most power bills, send back the bills with "Not at the address" on the unopened envelope