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2008 2.3 w/automatic idles rough


zolar1

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I misunderstood your original post. If you keep your speed at 48mph on the highway, and use some hyper mailing techniques, I can see getting almost 30. In the warmer months, I typically see 31-32 mpg in my duratec (5spd with 3.73 gears), but my highway speeds are 60-65mph, so I see more aero drag than you see going so slow.

As for your problems, I'm not sure. I don't know why the trans would have to be removed to replace the egr valve, but the duratec is still kind of new to me (I've had mine for just a few months). A clogged cat would definitely hurt your fuel economy and cause the engine to run pretty rough. If it's a cat, the question becomes why is it clogged? A stuck injector or valve issue could cause raw fuel to be dumped into the exhaust, which would melt the cat. You'd probably be able to see the converter glowing if it were bad though.

The fact that it won't heat up means the truck is staying in open loop, which is also really bad for fuel economy. Maybe the thermostat is faulty? I've read some threads about Duratec thermostat issues in the past. They can be problematic.

It definitely sounds like multiple problems, or one fairly serious issue to me though.
Warm up issue - if the MAP sensor reads wrong, it can cause a lean condition (or rich) and make it hard for the engine to warm up. It takes gas to heat it up.

I won't know more until tomorrow or monday when it is rather cold in the mornings and truck sits all night.

I am debating on changing the t-stat to a hotter one. Might increase MPG. The 180F one seems a bit low. Have to investigate the pros and cons like what happens in hot weather with A/C on.
 


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I'm not sure if you'll be able to find a different temp thermostat for the Duratec. They don't use standard thermostats. The thermostat for the Duratecs is built into the plastic coolant inlet that attaches to the engine. There's a sensor integrated into the piece too, possibly coolant temp sensor. The whole thing is about $150.
 

zolar1

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From the pic I saw, you can get the t-stat or the one with the housing.

The pic I saw seems to show that removing the o-ring you should be able to replace the t-stat separately.

Will going to a 190+ t-stat increase MPG?
I think mine is 180-ish rated.

Even after cleaning my MAP sensor, the darned thing still doesn't want to warm up simply by idling. It will a *little* but not up to operating temp unless you actually drive it for about a mile or so now. And that depends on the outside temp too. I just drove about a mile (it is 5F right now). Barely came off the bottom cole mark. I tried running at 2000 rpm sitting at idle and it barely went up much.

But idling will not allow it to warm up at all and will actually cool off after hot and sitting at idle when it is cold outside.

I also read somewhere that you could do a mod for the plastic t-stat to increase the temp. I also read that this engine runs too cold and loves to run hotter.
 

zolar1

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Some 2007-2009 Ranger vehicles equipped with a 2.3L engine and automatic transmission may exhibit an engine droan/moan/vibration at idle in the cab. There is a TSB 09-18-5 . Install Exhaust Damper, Reprogram The PCM And Neutralize Engine And Exhaust.
Before having all that done, check your MAP sensor. Mine was clogged with grime.
I cleaned it and most of the vibration went away.

I looked into the intake and saw greasy grime everywhere.

Update: I plan on having an 'induction cleaning' to clean the grime out of my intake.

It costs about $125. It is supposed to not only clean the grime out of the intake but some of the valves, O2 sensor, and CAT.

It takes about 30 minutes to do.

If your MAP sensor is clogged then you might want to have that done too. Or it will just clog back up again.
 

zolar1

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Update:

I checked my spark plugs. They had 57K miles on them (factory morotcraft plugs, original).

One was so worn the gap was 70 thousanths!

I put in a set of NGK G-Power (platinum) plugs. And some seafoam in the tank.

Seems to run better and gas gauge doesn't drop like a rock (yet). But weather has been warmer than usual lately.

I cleaned MAF, MAP, and IAC.

I noticed that the MAP sensor is oily and grimy just like the last time.

Any ideas WHY it keeps getting oily/grimy (or partially clogged?)

Sometimes idle now is tolerable and other times it is rough-ish but not as bad as before.

Also, I see evidence of a leaking water pump (had to put 3 quarts of antifreeze in the reservoir over a month's time). Will need help with this issue I think. I loosened the cap so to release a little of the pressure to prolong the life of the pump for now.

Can a bad PCV valve cause some of these problems with plugging MAP sensor?

I think Ford sold me a Lemon....

A month ago I had to fork out $1000 for brakes all the way around and rear axle seal replacement. Truck seems to eat brakes for some reason.

Hoping to take it on the highway soon for about 35 miles each way to see how it performs.
 
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zolar1

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update:

With the new NGK G-Power plugs tossed in at factory gap, my mpg went up about 2mpg so far. But that test was after running 1/2 tank with bad plugs and seafoam cleaner in the gas.

This morning the temp was around freezing and truck AGAIN ran like sh!t. I literally watched the gas gauge drop 1/8 tank when driving 3 miles.

After it warmed up it still ran badly but not as bad when first starting.

Some shops guess and say a vacuum leak but want to charge $90 / hour diagnostic fee on top of any parts and labor to fix found problems. Others say might be a bad O2 sensor.

NO CODES WHATSOEVER. Every time I try to get a diagnosis the LAZY mechanics toss on an analyzer, press a few buttons then say nothing wrong and that will be $X.

Also the transmission slips when first starting and engine running rough. It will shift better after truck is driven a bit.


Could the problem be as simple as a bad PCV valve or maybe a weak MAF sensor?

I did read somewhere that the MAF sensor controls the engine the most and controls transmission shifting.

But I cleaned it twice in 2 days to make sure it was clean (MAF cleaner).

The MAP sensor the first time was dirty when I cleaned the MAF sensor. Oily. Grimy.

Racking my brains here. I cannot afford to be literally raped by repair shops or the dealer for diagnostics and repairs.


CAN SOMEBODY tell me what I should look for or do?

PS another shop said it might be a bad head gasket or bad head.

PS do not tell me it needs exhaust damper because it never needed one before. That repair is treating the symptoms and not the problem.
Truck ran very well for about 5 years and no damper needed. Rule of thumb - if it didn't have one for 5 years it shouldn't need one now (damper).
 
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zolar1

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*UPDATE*

I did replace the worn out spark plugs with NGK G-Power. A little improvement with that.

After a very frustrating time of it a friend and I were looking under the hood watching the engine shake.

He glanced over and saw 2 cracks in my ignition coil. Dunno how I missed that.

I removed the coil and saw the 2 cracks easily plus one burnt hole in the side of it near one of the coil wires (about 2 inches below where the wire connects).

I replace the igntion coil and went on a test drive. Things seem better. Not so much engine vibration, a bit more power, and the transmission shifts better.

Waiting for the computer to relearn (soft reset of sorts).

Scangauge II is showing about a 25% improvement in MPG (I think it is still off by 1/3 though).

Just need a muffler and water pump now.

Interesting that no shop could discover something like a bad coil (no CEL though). 3 years of driving it this way too.

Engine still has a slight miss but that might straighten out on it's own.

Won't know more till a cold morning (under 40F) comes along.
 

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Good to hear you got things sort of sorted out. Rule of thumb for me, this is a personal thing and not be taken literally for you, is that any time I replace my plugs, I also replace my wires and coil. A healthy ignition keeps a engine running longer and smoother. That is just me so take it what it is worth.
 

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Still might replace wires but will wait a bit to see how things go.

Water pump next on the list then exhaust.....

Those will cost about $300 yet.


I am still amazed that no repair shop saw that coil problem. They just hooked up scanner and said nothing wrong that will be $90 !
 

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Update:



I noticed that the MAP sensor is oily and grimy just like the last time.

Any ideas WHY it keeps getting oily/grimy (or partially clogged?)
It is usually because you are using an oiled air filter rather than the dry paper filter Ford recommends.
 

zolar1

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I stopped using that K & N a long time ago and have a Fram in it.

Thinking that with a misfire that oil vapor, however slight, was being blown back into the intake when the valve was slightly open.

Most likely I think it is a bad PCV valve. It is 8 years old.

Still haven't located it yet Grrrrr............
 

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another update

After replacing my ignition coil the truck ran better. Old coil had cracks in it and a hole burned in the side of it. This morning right back to running BAD.

I had my scanguage II hooked up when I started it this morning.

It reported a whopping 3gal/hr fuel consumption on a 4 cylinder!

After driving it for 20 minutes it still reported double fuel consumption of the pre coil replacement.

I used to get between .18 and .22 gal/hr at idle. I am now getting over .4 gal/hr at idle and water temp about normal (177F)

air input temp is about 60F but usually reads higher than that after warmed up.

idle rpm's around 860.
tps showing 17
vlt 13.9
ign 16-19
LOD 19

closed loop
MAP 3.3 at idle and in park

GPH .44 gal/hr

IA reporting 82 but outside temp 60 after warmed up and shut off.

NO CODES

my scangauge does not report O2 readings nor fuel pressure readings :(

Anyone got a clue as to what the problem is?

I am trying not to throw parts at the truck.

I do not trust repair shops anymore. Their kind of diagnostics is to hook up a computer, read everything, say nothing is wrong, and charge me $90 when I know for certain there is something wrong.

Not one has bothered to check fuel pressure. Not one bothered to actually test sensors.

Note: I do need a muffler though. Mine loud especially in the mornings.


one owner (me), got it new, and only one who drives it. I KNOW how the truck behaved when new. It is far from that now.

And with gas prices beginning to soar, I need to fix the MPG problem quick.


Oh and the transmission shifting funny like it did before coil replacement. It shifted OK after replacement yesterday but now shifting funny again. Almost like a vacuum leak affecting the old vacuum modulators of old. Some delayed shifting. But not a whole lot.

I sprayed MAF cleaner everywhere and cannot detect any vacuum leak.

My MAP sensor likes to get grimy usually for some reason. PCV maybe?

Muffler causing the problems??

Maybe incorrect fuel pressure?

Out of calibration MAF sensor?

But never any codes.

Can anyone help without me throwing parts at it or paying for useless diagnostics?
 

zolar1

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Another update.

Engine vibration back again.

So I decided to look to the owner's manual for insight.

And it does tell you what you need to do to fix some of the problems - sorta.


If at any time the battery is disconnected, you have to manually do a computer relearn procedure.


The procedure is as follows:

1) reconnect battery
2) Turn off all accessories
3) Start engine and allow to warm up to normal operating temperature then wait at least 1 additional minute.
4) Turn on the A/C for at least 1 minute.
5) Drive vehicle at least 10 miles.


Computer should re-learn short and long term fuel trims. But may take longer.



It also says if you do not do the above you can have idle problems and transmission shifting problems.

I did that a few times and still have rough idle, especially when cold.
I have no codes which is the confusing part.

My idle GPH went back down to between .17 and .22 (which indicates running lean as compared to the .30 - .40 GPH I managed to get before.)


I am thinking that it is low fuel pressure causing the problems.

I have other problems now too but will start another thread for those.
 


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