2.3 Egr?.........

[Sidewalk]

if you dont understand how a system functions for yourself, you really shouldnt mislead others by trying to explain it.

the EGR system has nothing to do with burning unburnt hydrocarbons...the converter will take care of that (and has been since the 1970's).

the EGR system is designed to reduce the production of a pollutant called nitrogen oxide (NOX), which only forms in combustion chambers over a certain temperature. the EGR system prevents their formation by lowering combustion chamber temperatures.

exhaust gases are inert, meaning they do not add any fuel or air to the combustion chambers, all they do is take up room. since they are cooler than the combusting a/f mixture, they provide a lower combustion chamber temperature.

i can hear it now: "but mr sludge, doesnt the exhaust gas taking up room mean i have less room for air and fuel, and thus, less power from my motor?" no. the lower combustion chamber temperatures mean that the ignition timing can be advanced further than on a non-EGR engine, thus making up for any power lost due to exhaust gas presence in the chambers.

furthermore, all EGR operation is shut off during wide-open throttle...meaning even if the EGR system did cost you power, it wouldnt effect peak power.

as was mentioned, your computer is programmed to account for the EGR systems presence (primarily in the form of advanced engine timing). disabling the EGR on an engine programmed to run with it will cause a number of drivability concerns including, but not limited to:

-knocking/detonation - this can be fatal for a motor, leading to broken pistons, rings, and connecting rod bearings.
-lower fuel economy.
-rough running during cruise speeds
-check engine light
-failed emissions testing
-decreased power output

as was also mentioned, removing the EGR system is highly illegal. in fact, its against FEDERAL law to tamper with or disable any factory equipped emissions devices, regardless of wether or not you have emissions testing and/or inspections in your area. if your within the borders of the united states, your in violation of the law and the fine is heafty.

Bringing it to page 2.

blueovalboy...as i said, tampering with emissions equipment is illegal in all 50 states, regardless of if you have emisions testing or not. you may or may not get caught, but why risk it when your likely to cause damage and drivability problems by removing the egr anyway?

People assume that no testing=no laws.

i mean its got to help with carbon build up on valves and my truck runs on fuel fire and air not fuel fire and varis gasses that the government dosnt want in the o zone

Do even know what is in air? 78% of the air that is going into the engine is mostly leaving unchanged, because it is an inert gas. That is why people run nitrous oxide systems; displace the 21.8% oxygen with about 30%.

Do you even know what NOX emissions are?

because you dont understand how the EGR system functions?

Isn't that way carburators are better?

but why shove carbon into my engine

You mean like gasoline? Carbon gets in the engine from improperly burned gasoline carbon chain, not from an EGR.

see i ran into the same problem you did with you escort with my 79 302

'79 302? I am sure it was in peak operating condition being how many decades old?

Incoming exhaust gasses do change the a/f mixture in that the gas takes up space that could be used for more a/f mixture, plus the heat from the exhaust causes the incoming oxygen to be less dense, hence less efficiency.

If you displace the oxygen, the the fuel will be corrected. Otherwise you would be driving around everywhere with a rich mixture, which is great for emmisions and CAFE standards.

Going back to the good post on page one, the system is off at WOT, so there is no air warming, no inert gas, just fuel available efficiency.

It "somewhat" compensates. But, here again, one size does not fit all. In many, if not most cases, the egr is a trade-off, a little less power for more emissions control.shady

Less power at less throttle, where you are not demanding it.

see my original post.

the EGR's whole purpose in life is to LOWER combustion temps. removing it will raise combustion temps.

He thinks he is getting hot air at WOT. Someone didn't read your post.

 

[Sidewalk]

Nevermind, page 3.

 

[Blueovalboy89]

First off, thanks everyone for posting info. I greatly appreciate it. Sorry wicked, but ironically enough, when i went to drop the motor in, the EGR plumbing created some clearance issues with the firewall and i had to remove it. In regards to your last post, please elaborate on how the EGR reduces combustion temp. Im not trying to be a wise ass by any means, but naturally my common sense would tell me that if you dump exhaust gasses into the intake it would only increase combustion temp. Like i said please elaborate.

 

[mongo]

yeah yeah yeah

thats what im saying



and why did i get great results out of my 302 i had to pull the egr out of

 

[mongo]

im really glad im not the only one that dosnt get it

 

[Sidewalk]

Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation

and why did i get great results out of my 302 i had to pull the egr out of

Maybe it wasn't working properly anymore. If you remove your clogged air filter your engine will magically start to run better, but that isn't exactly a surprise because you understand how an air filter works and why it was making the engine run poorly. Since you do not understand how an EGR works you just pull it out and assume that positive results mean that the piece of equipment is causing problems by design.

Same idea as people assuming that removing a catalytic converter makes the engine run better. Sure, if it is blocked, your engine will run better, but if you do not understand how a cat works then you are not going to know why your engine running better and will just assume cat=poor performance without diagnosing the problem first.

How many people think EFI sucks because a sensor goes bad? Carburators are great to those who know how to tune them but don't know EFI. If you learn hot to tune EFI it will all of a sudden become the greatest thing that emissions requirements ever did for performance. I know, I can tune both (both vehicles listed below are carbed, EFI is in the works for the VW, but not the bike).

 

[Blueovalboy89]

Wow! I guess i havent taken enough college courses to grasp that one, but wikipedia is never wrong; right? I'm gunna let this go. I had no choice. I had to remove the EGR. Its done. Ill make adjustments to the timing if needed. Ok, look. When i took the EGR off, there was so much carbon buildup just right there in the flange to convince me that the EGR is useless and more trouble than it is worth. Yall can say all you want about chemistry, pollution and so forth, but im done with it. I have no choice. Thanks for the opinions.

 

[mongo]

i understand how a cat works and i know for a fact that you car will run better with out them

and i agree with him on this one i dont like egr and will remove if i have to
rather than fixing or rigging the egr system

ill leave it alone as long as its working as it should

thanks alot for all the time and effort you guys spent typing and reading all that info

i really really admire that but its wasnt enough to convince me that its a system that actouly has a point in the engine


i think if my state had emmisions i might sing a diffrent tune but as for now in not saying its worthless but idont like it simply because it makes no scence

thats for all the great help and please dont hold this aginst me in the forms

im a new member and i love this site who ever is a high up brovo my friend

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

because you dont understand something and cant quite wrap your brain around it, that makes it bad an sacrificable. what an amazingly narrow-minded point of view.

there was a point when i didnt understand EGR systems or catalytic converts either. but rather than fear it because of my lack of understanding, i learned how they work. knowledge is power my friend....but i guess its easier to sit in front of the TV and watch southpark (i do both).

from someone who understand said systems: properly functioning EGR and cat converters do not cost your engine any reliability, power, or fuel economy.

 

[mongo]

then once again i bring up another car

96 mustang 4.6 not alot of miles

we did a k&n cold air kit and flowmaster true duels

gain about 7 mpg

later that same month after the computer reset to the upgrades we cut all 6 cats off and gained another 7

and the car compleatly came alive
it was like driving a whole other car

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

dyno sheet or GTFO

 

[mongo]

and the only good thing about the egr is it lowers temps i dont see how but everything and one says it does

but its like i said ill leave it alone till it gives me trouble then the whole system is out

 

[mongo]

all right this was some years ago but we did have a dyno sheet after we did it

its not fare tho because we were comparing it to the factory sticker and on the dyno we were running racing fuel

ill see if i can dig it up

 

[Wicked_Sludge]

its not fare tho because we were comparing it to the factory sticker and on the dyno we were running racing fuel

its funny how extra facts always come out when people demand proof. if you didnt run it on the dyno before the mods then dont bother looking for that sheet. without baseline HP and fuel economy readings you dont have any valid information in your posession.

 

[mongo]

why would we dyno a stock car?

at $60 a run