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1995 will not shift-Maybe a different problem than bleeding issue?


afbryant1964

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Hi everyone, I have a 95 Ranger with 2.3 and M5OD 5 Sp manual trans. Last yr, the slave went out and I bought the ebay clutch kit. Yeah, I know. Sorta worked okay for a few days. Ebay seller replaced the slave cylinder for free. Would not change gears while running but it would change otherwise. It still would not change after the new slave. Bought a LUK slave and a pre-filled clutch master assembly after the second time taking trans out. Believe me, this system has been bled, burped and bled again. I took off the new pre-filled master assy just for good measure to tie it to a ladder to bleed it again. It has no air leaks. It has a new clutch, pp, pilot, on the third slave, all with the same results. This is the fourth time I will be taking it out. I have went through 4 bottles of brake fluid.
I think maybe it is time to look somewhere else. The original pilot was worn down to nothing, all the needles were gone and the only thing left was the outer race.. Well, it now has a new pilot which does have the same OD as the one that came off and it does fit the input shaft . The input shaft does seem to be out-of round at one spot. Could this be the problem? The shaft has very little or no play in and out. It has app. 3/16 play side to side.
Can someone explain to me when the input shaft is supposed to turn and not turn. Maybe, some troubleshooting test to try. I did jack the rear of the truck up tonight. The driveshaft will not turn with the truck in gear until the clutch is depressed. Isnt this telling me that the clutch is disengaging as it should?? I could actually see it through the access hole while my wife was pressing the clutch and daughter turning the tire.
Is the tail shaft supposed to turn as you turn the input shaft? A lot of questions, I know, but I need all the help with all probabilities this time. This is definitely the last time I am taking it out. Yeah...right
 


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afbryant1964

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Forgot to mention that the truck does surge if it is left in gear while cranking with the clutch pedal all the way to the floor. This has been consistant every time I have tried anything new or different. I have seen all the perfection videos and everytime I do it, I do have 1/8 or less travel on the pushrod. As far as the slave bleeding, I have tried gravity bleeding dozens of times. I have tried bleeding it like brakes(pump,pump,hold,bleed,repeat) If I leave the trans in 4th gear and crank it, I can shift it out of 4th to N, I don't know what that is telling me. This is the only movement I can get with the shifter while it is running
 

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There are some other things that I have personally run into that causes the same symptoms.
-Check your master cylinder where it bolts on. I had a master where one ear cracked and you couldn't see it unless someone pressed the pedal while I was looking.
-Check the firewall for cracking in the sheet metal. I had a case where there was what looked like a factory weld repair on the firewall. The firewall ended up cracking beside the weld and allowed the pedal to move with the firewall and so there wasn't enough pedal travel. The only easy way to see this was from inside the cab when I pulled the carpet back.
-Try vacuum bleeding. Grab a 1 quart mason jar and drill two holes in the lid that are slightly smaller than the clear hose that you are going to pull thru it. One shorter [~3-4] feet hose goes to the bleeder valve. The other longer hose [ as long as the length of your car so you can later use it for bleeding brakes ] goes to a vacuum source on your engine. It can be quite difficult to get to the bleeder. Hook up the lines and fire up your truck. Keep an eye on master fluid level. I usually use a full small bottle to be sure.
 
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RonD

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If truck tries to move forward when trans is in 1st, clutch pedal down all the way, and you are trying to start engine then it is FOR SURE a clutch problem, period
So that much is known

Rangers have two user choice options for Pressure plates
Regular
or
SAC(self adjusting clutch)

Slaves and Masters are the same, but must be matched for same year as connector changed around 1992

In my opinion the SAC pressure plate is worth the extra cost

The way clutch works
a new clutch disc has a specific thickness
Regular pressure plate has a specific distance from flywheel to CLAMP clutch disc tight to flywheel, so it doesn't slip
In the "old days" there was an external slave and it had an adjustable push rod, so you could adjust clutch disc release for the new thicker clutch disc, and as the disc wore down you could adjust push rod for that, until disc was too thin and started to slip

With an internal slave there is no adjustment, and that means Ford needed to design a slave that has enough travel to release a brand new thick clutch disc using regular pressure plate.
And they did but...........barely releases it enough, any air will cause it not to release fully
Now after a few weeks/months the new clutch disc will wear down because it is rubbing all the time, so system will starts to work better.
Just a real pain with new clutch disc and regular pressure plate

Thats where SAC is better, the SAC pressure plate has an automatic adjustment, it has pressure plate farther away from flywheel when new, so slave travel can be a bit less and it still releases new clutch disc.
As the clutch disc wears down the SAC moves the pressure plate closer to the flywheel so pressure remains the same, and clutch pedal in cab release and engage remains the same, through out the life of the clutch disc

Regular pressure plate looks like this: https://www.carid.com/ic/wp/sachs/w01331606100sac_1.jpg

Self adjusting(SAC) seen here: https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2NlgxNjAw/z/5ZsAAOSwgY9XdnGn/$_1.JPG?set_id=8800005007

Do you see the YELLOW springs, those are fully compressed on a new SAC pressure plate, they are what push the plate closer to flywheel as clutch disc gets thinner over its life.
Theses springs can be reset, and MUST BE reset if new disc is installed.
 

afbryant1964

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Ron, I have not even thought about this. I cant remember which style it was, but I will be taking the trans out again this week. This is something to take a closer look at. Thanks
 

RonD

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If you had a SAC pressure plate and it wasn't reset then clutch pedal could never disengage a new thicker clutch disc

If you got a new regular pressure plate then clutch pedal, master and slave must be in prefect condition to disengage new clutch disc
If clutch pedal bushings(pivot or push rod) are worn or there is any air in the system you will get what you have now, rubbing clutch disc with pedal down to the floor, so won't go into gear when stopped, shifting while moving would work but would be stiff
 

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It has app. 3/16 play side to side.
Can someone explain to me when the input shaft is supposed to turn and not turn.
This concerns me. That is a LOT of slop. It should have very little or none in any direction.

The input shaft is always turning except when the clutch is disengaged (clutch pedal pushed in.) Otherwise it's turning and so will the rest of the transmission internals, unless it's in neutral. You should be able to put the trans in any gear, spin the input shaft, and see the output shaft turn. Keep in mind that it should be harder to turn in some gears than in others.

I'm working off the assumption that before the original slave cylinder went out, the trans was working properly, correct? With that in mind nothing else has changed, so the most likely thing here is an issue with the clutch hydraulics - air in the system - and what Ron said is excellent advice too.
 

alwaysFlOoReD

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You didn't say if you tried vacuum bleeding. It is a cheap way of eliminating one possible cause. Check out the pic of my homemade vacuum bleeder in this thread;
 

decipha

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Theres nothing I can say that hasn't already been said but I have a similar m5r2 trans in my supercoupes and one thing that I recommend is going with a completely clutch replacement kit rather than trying to piece it together. I can't vouch for the trucks specifically but I've had excellent luck with the Luk ?? oem replacment clutch kits available at autozone.
 

afbryant1964

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Yes, the trans was working good, it always made a slight noise when the clutch was depressed. It just quit shifting with no warning. I haven't tried vacuum bleeding yet. The disc and pp came as a kit. I don't remember if it was a SAC
 

helpme

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I think thats what my problem is. Its still got air in the line. Thanks.
 

afbryant1964

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Got it going finally. I just bought a better clutch kit(LUK) and installed it and just gravity bled the slave and everything is good, I guess I learned a valuable lesson about buying the cheapest thing I can find, Thanks guys
 

RonD

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Good work(y)

Thanks for the update and what fixed the problem
 


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