2.3L ('02-'11) 03 Ranger (clone) - Clutch Hydraulic Line Won't Stay "bled" - Air Leaking INto Line Somehow

[R2D2]

It's an 03 Mazda B2300 (Ranger clone) 165k miles on it - 2.3L

This thing is driving me crazy. I've replaced the master cylinder line with a complete pre-bled master and line assembly:

AND, the slave cylinder is a non-self adjusting one that's only got like 3k miles on it. It's a long story but I was having problems with the line not "staying" bled with the current slave cylinder, so then I figured it must be the master since the slave is so new. So I bought that pre-bled master assembly and It sill won't stay bled. When I installed it and bled it, it functioned awesome at first, with the clutch releasing and engaging near the top of the pedal height. Then slowly as the days go by every time, the pedal starts getting sloppier and sloppier and it gets closer and closer to the floor to release and engage till after about day 5 or 6 I can't even get it into gear anymore and I have to bleed it again. Then it works fine at first agin, then slowly starts getting closer to the floor again over and over. And it's always in the morning after it's been sitting all night that the pedal feels the worst.

I'm pretty sure these pre-bled master assemblies are hooked up to machines to vacuum bleed them before shipping and they have every molecule of air sucked out of them. So that only leaves the slave cylinder as the culprit. Every time I go to bleed the thing at the slave to get it operating again total foam comes out of the bleeder screw at first doing the bleed procedure. There's only two possible places for air to get sucked in and that would be the quick-connect connection at the line assembly to the slave cylinder, then possibly the bleeder stem coming out of the slave cylinder. The bleeder screw stem is actually "jiggly"/loose. But then why is it not leaking hydro fluid? And also I did check the o'ring on the master line assembly where it connects to the slave and it is in place and not missing. I can't understand how air could be getting sucked into the line somewhere but not have hydro fluid getting pushed out of the same spot that's letting in air. The hydro level does not go down in the resevoir. I can't understand how this thing could be sucking in air anywhere.

Could air be getting sucked in at the slave piston area like every time I push the clutch pedal in or something. I don't get it. I'm tired of messing with this stupid thing and buying more and more clutch line replacement parts for it. Not to mention the all day event of dropping the trans every time I need to change out the slave cylinder.

 

[sgtsandman]

Unfortunately, new parts aren't always going to be good parts. If everything seems good with the master cylinder and the connection to the slave cylinder is solid, then I would be looking as the slave being bad. Since you've been able to successfully bleed the clutch system, a bad connection seems to not be the problem. Unless you can prove that the new master is bad and is causing the problem. Short of buying another master, I don't know how else to check it if the pedal pressure feels right.

 

[R2D2]

Yeah I pretty much answered my own question I guess.

BTW, I see you're a Aircraft Fuel Tanker Driver. Do you fly tanker aircraft or fill aircraft fuel tanks?

I just went to trucking school and got my CDL. I already have my tanker endorsement and take my HAZMAT endorsement test next Wednesday. The plan is hauling gasoline in an 18 wheeler. Dangerous? Just a bit. Better pay? Most definitely.

 

[ericbphoto]

Even better. He’s a fuel tank “diver” going inside them to do repairs and stuff.

 

[gw33gp]

I recently went through a frustrating time similar to what you are experiencing. I don't know if we had/have the same problem though.

When I first bled the salve, a white grease looking stuff came out with the brake fluid. I don't know if that stuff contributed to my problem but every time I bled it, a little air and a little more of that white stuff would come out. The last few times, I would get a little air but none of the white stuff.

After bleeding, the clutch would be almost normal, but would slowly get to the point where the clutch would only release with the pedal near the floor. After a few days I would bleed it again and go through the same cycle. I had an extended off-road trip coming up and the week before it seemed to be holding okay. On my way to the meeting point from CA to NM on the Interstate it started to act up again. I had planned to bleed the salve again but forgot about it and started the off-road portion of the trip. When I ended the off-road portion about 800 miles later and got on the Interstate to go back home, I realized the clutch was disengaging better that it had since I installed the new slave. It has continued to work well since getting home and that has been over a month ago.

So, I can't really tell you what was causing the problem, but a little persistence and a lot of beating around off-road fixed it. I just hope it stays fixed. Good Luck in solving your problem.

 

[R2D2]

Even better. He’s a fuel tank “diver” going inside them to do repairs and stuff.

Ahh.. reading skills. I'm still working on that.

 

[R2D2]

I recently went through a frustrating time similar to what you are experiencing. I don't know if we had/have the same problem though.

When I first bled the salve, a white grease looking stuff came out with the brake fluid. I don't know if that stuff contributed to my problem but every time I bled it, a little air and a little more of that white stuff would come out. The last few times, I would get a little air but none of the white stuff.

After bleeding, the clutch would be almost normal, but would slowly get to the point where the clutch would only release with the pedal near the floor. After a few days I would bleed it again and go through the same cycle. I had an extended off-road trip coming up and the week before it seemed to be holding okay. On my way to the meeting point from CA to NM on the Interstate it started to act up again. I had planned to bleed the salve again but forgot about it and started the off-road portion of the trip. When I ended the off-road portion about 800 miles later and got on the Interstate to go back home, I realized the clutch was disengaging better that it had since I installed the new slave. It has continued to work well since getting home and that has been over a month ago.

So, I can't really tell you what was causing the problem, but a little persistence and a lot of beating around off-road fixed it. I just hope it stays fixed. Good Luck in solving your problem.

I think my situation may different. I'm gonna go ahead and order a new slave and see what happens. There seems to be air getting into the line somehow cause every time I bleed it foam/suds comes out first thing. Maybe the slave piston seal is sucking in air somehow on the back stroke. I have no idea. The only question now is, what type of slave to order. Self adjusting or non-self adjusting. Self adjusting cylinders have their own problems to. Sometimes they can get fluid onto the wrong side of the "valve" and it makes the slave lock-up in the release/forward position. I've had that happen on this same vehicle with a self adjusting slave. Which is why I switched over to the non-self adjusting slave. And now I'm having the opposite scenario, won't release/push forward.

 

[gw33gp]

Honestly, I have never heard of a non-self adjusting slave cylinder. Ranger pressure plates come as self adjusting or non self-adjusting, I thought all clutch slaves were self adjusting. I have never taken a Ranger clutch slave apart but I know my 1970 BMW does not have any valve in it. It is an external slave, but I cant' see why any slave should need a valve. Maybe I can learn something here.

 

[R2D2]

Honestly, I have never heard of a non-self adjusting slave cylinder. Ranger pressure plates come as self adjusting or non self-adjusting, I thought all clutch slaves were self adjusting. I have never taken a Ranger clutch slave apart but I know my 1970 BMW does not have any valve in it. It is an external slave, but I cant' see why any slave should need a valve. Maybe I can learn something here.

The first image is the "non-self adjusting" slave I have in there now. This is the slave that is "leaking down" and won't hold pressure or air is leaking into it somehow. See how long that stem is coming out of the slave that has the bleeder screw at the other end? You can also see two plastic tabs that the stem is fed through to keep the stem from getting janked around and loose. Well that whole thing is very "jiggly"/loose from me turning the bleeder screw open and closed to bleed it. I'm wondering if air is getting into it where that stem goes into the slave body.

This second image is I guess a "self adjusting" slave. This slave with the blue plastic at the top of it is the slave I had in there the first time that kept locking-up in the forward/released position. So I ditched that slave for the other one. As you can see in the item description from rockauto that slave has "valves" in it so to speak. That can be a good thing, keeping the release and engage at the top of the pedal height, or a bad thing, because fluid can get on the wrong side of something in there and cause a lock-up situation.

I'm actually contemplating getting another "self adjusting" slave with the blue plastic up top. It operated fine for the most part. I think the fluid got on the wrong side of some valve in their because when I first bought the vehicle off of Craigslist, the 2nd gear synchro was trashed on it so I had to run the vehicle shifting from 1st to 3rd gear, heavily clutching it from 1st to 3rd around corners and so forth. Then when me and my son built a fence, I loaded the back of the truck up with several very heavy loads of salt treated lumber and then the weakness of that type of slave started showing up. At one point coming back from Lowe's the thing locked-up completely and to coast it off to the side of the road and call AAA. That's when I decided to go with the other type.

 

[gw33gp]

I did an extensive search on the internet on part number SH6161WB and none other than Rock Auto states anything about it being non-self adjusting. I think that may be an error by Rock Auto. I did find one site stating it not being prefilled and is difficult to bleed. I would not go on one website stating it is non-self adjusting convince me that is what it is, You can believe what ever you want and may be right, but I still remain unconvinced.

 

[R2D2]

UPDATE: So I dropped the trans and put a new slave in, the kind with the blue plastic, and the clutch pedal is fine now. It's releasing and engaging at the top of the pedal height and it's stayed good for over a week now and it hasn't "leaked down" any whatsoever. The other slave was either getting air into it somehow or it had a bad seal in it that was allowing fluid to squeeze past it back and forth. I'm glad that's over with. I was having to re-bleed the thing every 5 or 6 days for over a month to keep it operating.