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Hey Ford!!! Screw you guys!!!!


snoranger

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I said the *trucks* peaked in the late 70s, not nessaceraly the engines. Even though imo they are miles ahead of the shit that came later.
BUT...

94-97 were 245hp and 410ftlbs, torque is what matters anyways.
So is the 94-97 460 better or worse. I’m trying to follow you here but you keep contradicting yourself with every sentence.
Is it Alzheimer’s?
 


ericbphoto

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rusty ol ranger

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BUT...



So is the 94-97 460 better or worse. I’m trying to follow you here but you keep contradicting yourself with every sentence.
Is it Alzheimer’s?
Didnt i say the trucks more less leveled off from the late 70s to mid 90s?

Im done here. Im not sure what your end goal is here but im done with it.
 

Eddo Rogue

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I have questions for Ford. I have issues with Ford and the way they are designing/building vehicles, specifically the engines. I want to contact the design team to ask them why they stopped putting keyways on the cams and cranks. Nobody can tell me how to contact the people I want to talk to.

I've asked Ford's Tech Hotline, their response "Yeah, it's a dumb design, we don't know how to contact that group". I checked Ford's website, no information aside from the design team "exists". I just got done with a "live chat" with Ford's customer service who referred me to the dealership service center. I AM THE FREAKING DEALERSHIP SERVICE CENTER!!!!

I just put a 1.5 together today. I had to replace the short block because some retard at Ford OK'd for production a design that has an open faced water jacket against the head, between the cylinders. Surprise surprise it blows out the head gaskets. My 7 yo could have predicted that. I showed him a picture of that block and he said "daddy, that was a dumb idea".

So I've spent the last half of my week fixing yet another one of Ford's totally predictable and preventable f**kups and at the very end, just when I thought I was done I ran afoul of another one. MF'ers thought a non-keyed crank, and two non-keyed cams was an acceptable design. I used all new hardware, used all their special tools, the cam aligning plate, the phaser aligning dog-bone, the crank stop pin to set cylinder 1 and TDC, the crank locking tool that bites onto the flywheel teeth, all of it. I held the cams with the 21 wrench on the hex. I torqued the bolts by the book. Cam bolts, 18 ft.lbs + 75 degrees. Crank bolt 75 ft lbs, + 90 degrees, plus 15 degrees. Rotated it twice around to install and torque my torque converter nuts, brought it back to TDC and slipped all the cam aligning tools in nice and easy. It was in time.

So I put the little bastard engine back in it's MFing home, hooked it all up, fired it up, and it sat and idled in my bay smooth as glass for 10 minutes. I tried to back it out and it died and wouldn't re-start. Now I have a P0016, Crankshaft position- Camshaft position correlation error, Bank 1 sensor A. The fracking intake cam jumped time.

I am at least the third person I know of that this has happened to. Two of us are Senior Master Techs. I haven't torn mine back apart yet, but in the other two cases the phasers skipped on the cam after everything was tightened.

Golly gee whiz. I bet a MF'ing keywayed f**king camshaft could have prevented that. But you bastards at Corporate were too lazy, cheap, stupid, or all three, to figure that out and do it. "Oh no, friction will hold it together even after it's all soaked in oil".

Ford, you people are idiots, you need to start building the vehicles right again, or stop doing it altogether. I want to talk to your people directly, I want answers about why you are half assing things, and I don't want to hear anything that even gets into the same state of matter as "but my production costs".
dont get me started on this can of worms lol....ok rant time!

Its seems truck (and motorcycle) technology has gone against logic trying to reinvent the wheel.

they made screaming turbo v6's for trucks instead of big v8 or small diesels, and mated to a 10 speed transmission (how long will that last shifting like crazy pulling loads)? Dont those belong in high rpm, high hp lightweight race cars? I thought displacement, low end torque, and minimal shifting was the logical set up for a trucks applications?

Hey maybe they'll next stuff a tractor diesel into the mustang, w/ a cvt tranny... call it a bioecosport?!

whats in the future? An f150 featuring a 1.3l 4 cylinder running 70lbs of boost mated to 37 speed tranny? I'll take my v8 or diesel with a minimal shifting trans thanks.

yamaha, in their R1 sportbike, replaced their high rpm high hp inline 4 with a cross plane crank designed for torque and towing applications in their new gen race replicas.... who applies that to a crotch rocket? wtf do I need torque for? I need high rpm power and minimal crank rotation effects. My old inline four R1 smokes them btw, they have less hp and are heavier than my '05...I dont have crap like ABS, traction control, slipper clutch, detune mode selection...all of which I loathe in new bikes, and shut off if I can (like on Kawi ZX10's)

I think ford and yamaha should trade engineers. Yamaha could stick their torque motors in ford trucks, and the ford guys can stick their high revving screamers into the yamaha race bikes....

Nissan offered their Titan XD 1/2 ton full size truck w/ a diesel (and 13,500lb towing capacity). Awesome platform. Discontinued!...Probably because they made them too well, and would lose their asses not selling parts and repairs. My buddy has one and its bulletproof 100k plus miles so far. Pulls his utv loaded double axle toy hauler no problem. Diesel no longer offered 🤷‍♂️

We should have flying cars by now, instead we have blind spot inidicators, and self parking features to help drivers be even more incompetent and inattentive. Driving has gone from a verb to a noun.

I wish they would come up with an indicator that says "you are travelling very slow in the fast lanes, and causing a traffic jam behind you, please move the **** over, slower traffic keep right, left lane is for passing (one of the 1st dmv rules as well, the basic speed law). Im often stuck behind 6 lanes of mostly prius side by side going 55 in a 65, all blocking any chance of lane changing or passing....why do people love driving perfectly next eachother?


Anyways I feel your pain and share your frustrations. Maybe you can find the right dept to give some asshole an earful, which might be why they finally brought back the ranger.

cheers
 

85_Ranger4x4

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I said the *trucks* peaked in the late 70s, not nessaceraly the engines. Even though imo they are miles ahead of the shit that came later.
The engines were not really much to brag about but there is more to “a truck” than what the US market wants too.

The Land Rovers and Land Cruisers going all over third world countries are like coil spring 1970’s US trucks with Diesel engines. They are tough and simple. If they break you can fix it with a rock and an old rag. They laugh at anything out of the US because it won't hold up.

Very possible it has something to do with dealer support, oddballs in the US are often scorned while they are worshiped in their native lands also.

Anyway "the best" will vary from person to person and what they need.

It does stick in this "soccer dad's" crawl when people dis on newer trucks saying they don't hold up. They hold up better than ever. My personal truck is of the most commonly scorned generations of F-150 and knocking on wood it has been as reliable as a hammer. It pulls wagons, fertilizer carts, trailers loaded with anything lawn mowers to trucks to tractors to trenchers. It has been there and it has done that. 182k miles on it, just in the last few years it just got thru rust holes in the bed. It is really hard to ask for anything better at the end of the day. 17mpg at 75mph, rides nice enough my 7mo old can sleep in the back at that speed too. Not bad at all for a 18 year old truck, I have had it for 15 this June.

It isn't perfect and there are things that change... but no truck is perfect.

they made screaming turbo v6's trucks instead of big v8 or small diesels, and mated to a 10 speed transmission (how long will that last shifting like crazy pulling loads)? Dont those belong in high rpm, high hp lightweight race cars? I thought displacement, low end torque, and minimal shifting was the logical set up for a trucks applications?

Hey maybe they'll next stuff a tractor diesel into the mustang, w/ a cvt tranny... call it a bioecosport?!

whats in the future? An f150 featuring a 1.3l 4 cylinder running 70lbs of boost mated to 37 speed tranny? I'll take my v8 or diesel with a minimal shifting trans thanks.
Speaking of tractors they have had 8 speed power shift transmissions in the 60's, they went to 16+ in the 70's. It used to be you could shift them up or down with a lever, now you use a toggle switch. Pretty similar to a manual shifted automatic transmission. They old up great, keep good oil in them and they last forever.
 

Eddo Rogue

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The engines were not really much to brag about but there is more to “a truck” than what the US market wants too.

The Land Rovers and Land Cruisers going all over third world countries are like coil spring 1970’s US trucks with Diesel engines. They are tough and simple. If they break you can fix it with a rock and an old rag. They laugh at anything out of the US because it won't hold up.

Very possible it has something to do with dealer support, oddballs in the US are often scorned while they are worshiped in their native lands also.

Anyway "the best" will vary from person to person and what they need.

It does stick in this "soccer dad's" crawl when people dis on newer trucks saying they don't hold up. They hold up better than ever. My personal truck is of the most commonly scorned generations of F-150 and knocking on wood it has been as reliable as a hammer. It pulls wagons, fertilizer carts, trailers loaded with anything lawn mowers to trucks to tractors to trenchers. It has been there and it has done that. 182k miles on it, just in the last few years it just got thru rust holes in the bed. It is really hard to ask for anything better at the end of the day. 17mpg at 75mph, rides nice enough my 7mo old can sleep in the back at that speed too. Not bad at all for a 18 year old truck, I have had it for 15 this June.

It isn't perfect and there are things that change... but no truck is perfect.



Speaking of tractors they have had 8 speed power shift transmissions in the 60's, they went to 16+ in the 70's. It used to be you could shift them up or down with a lever, now you use a toggle switch. Pretty similar to a manual shifted automatic transmission. They old up great, keep good oil in them and they last forever.
I have always been enamored by the mysterious toggle switch, would like to try driving one someday...But really I was trying to emphasized the ass backwardsness of some of modern engine application theories, maybe theyre forced to reinvent the wheel for whatever reasons (profits,emissions etc) Like hypothetically for example choosing a tractor diesel over a turbo 4 cylinder as the powerplant, when they're designing a compact sports car...seems like they go against the grain these days when it comes to engine applications. A heavy tractor wouldn't benefit from a small bore, high revving engine that makes more hp than torque, but based on modern logic (or emissions) that's what they would sell us as better, and try to make it work. It is my bias however...much like how I prefer 2 stroke bikes over 4 strokes, and within 4 strokes prefer inline over v designs.... Because my riding styles is used to lack of engine braking, of which V design 4 strokes create the most of, and 2 strokes the least. My inline 4 four stroke sportbike has relatively little engine braking compared to say a harely v twin, but much more than my 2 stroke motocrosser (which has almost none).

16 speed tractor, Awesome!
 

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I have always been enamored by the mysterious toggle switch, would like to try driving one someday...But really I was trying to emphasized the ass backwardsness of some of modern engine application theories, maybe theyre forced to reinvent the wheel for whatever reasons (profits,emissions etc) Like hypothetically for example choosing a tractor diesel over a turbo 4 cylinder as the powerplant
On the other hand... that is exactly what did happen with tractors. Smaller displacement +direct injection + boost won out over large displacement naturally aspirated indirect injected.

Smaller, lighter, easier packaged, better power, easier starting (diesel only issue) for fuel used.
 

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Engines is goes vroom.
 

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@8thTon for president, he knows all. Hell, why haven't you given the secret recipe for the COVID19 cure yet.
So when did 3.07 become the morally correct gear ratio? You’re just setting arbitrary requirements to support your notions.
As are you. Yes, gears make a subpar engine do the same work as the engine that should be doing the work. I concede.

Tell you what, you build the baddest ass 1.5 turbo you can and I'll build a streetable 351w (I won't even bother with a big block) and we'll hook them crank to crank at whatever RPM you choose for your 1.5 and I choose four my 351, then we'll dump the clutch to see which one explodes.
 
Last edited:

G8orFord

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Give me a long enough lever (gear) and I'll move the world. Possible, sure, practical, no.
 

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@8thTon for president, he knows all. Hell, why haven't you given the secret recipe for the COVID19 cure yet.

As are you. Yes, gears make a subpar engine do the same work as the engine that should be doing the work. I concede.

Tell you what, you build the baddest ass 1.5 turbo you can and I'll build a streetable 351w (I won't even bother with a big block) and we'll hook them crank to crank at whatever RPM you choose for your 1.5 and I choose four my 351, then we'll dump the clutch to see which one explodes.
Neither.

In that scenario the 1.5 will get whipped around in a circle. The assembled short block weighs 150 lbs, the long block is only about 175.
 

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3.07 sounds like too high a gear for a truck- until you do a little math. We sold a lot of F150's and 250's with 4.10 gears but they had overdrive transmissions, assuming a .67 ratio in overdrive, that 4.10 rear would act like a 2.75. I used a C4 in my Ranger that obviously doesn't have overdrive so I went with 3.00 gears, the 351 doesn't have any trouble getting it rolling. I had a 77 F150 with a T18 behind a 300 six with 3.50 gears. It worked great but between the 3.50's and the low revving 300, it was not a highway cruiser. There was something about 77-79 Fseries and 78-9 Broncos that made people keep them for a long time. It wasn't gas mileage, a 4x4 F150 with a 351,C6, and full time 4 wheel drive would get 12-13 mpg in the summer if you were lucky, in the winter it dropped by half. If a full time 4x4 was towed in during sub zero weather and had to be pushed into a stall, we got the whole crew behind it to overcome the drag of the full time transfer case and both differentials full of congealed 90w.
 

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Neither.

In that scenario the 1.5 will get whipped around in a circle. The assembled short block weighs 150 lbs, the long block is only about 175.
Lol, I like to think the 351 whipping the 1.5 around would cause some form of destruction. However, I'm willing to mount them both solid and see what happens too.
 

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we had a 77 F250 with a 400,C6,4.10s and full-time 4wd. 9mpg at best. was a beast with the western blade or pulling wagons. Would barely start rolling (when not under load) and it was in 2nd, made the 2-3 shift at about 30 mph. felt like it was a 2 speed.
 

rusty ol ranger

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Give me a long enough lever (gear) and I'll move the world. Possible, sure, practical, no.
This is what gets me with the "oh you have to gear it right" arguement.

Yes, you could take a 1.3L festiva and gear it low enough to literally pull a freight train.

But in the instances im talking about its like taking a world record holding strongman and putting them in a contest to break a large rusty bolt loose with an average guy.

Sure, the average guy can do it with a 6ft cheater bar, while the strongman needs nothing but the 1/2in ratchet. So it would then appear to anyone who doesnt understand mechanics that the average guy is just as strong as his opponent.

Gears are mechanical advantage, same as a cheater bar. But it doesnt make the guy with a huge cheater bar as strong as the guy without, even if the end result is the same.
 

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