2.8 or 2.9 performance??

[snoranger]

Originally Posted by 10strokin

Calling someone Stupid because they think outside the box is a GUARANTEE you wont here from them again! Basically what you guys are inferring is that people like Sven Pruett, and Pat Kunz are Stupid because they wanted to DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT by advancing the small V6 cause, trying new things, seeing what works and what doesnt, coming up with excellent results. But because they didnt subscribe to the "bigger is better" mentality that emanates here on this forum, They are "stupid".

OK, I will stick to the Tech library on here, and my own trial and error with the Squires turbo system I am fabricating for my truck. I have no need for the close minded ignorance/arrogance from the keyboard warriors here. If i want that again, I will join a NASCAR chatroom. Cheers all!

I'm all for doing something different, (I'm swapping a Cummins into my Ex.)But I do agree a 4.0l swap makes a lot of sense. I even gave you a link to a carb adapter for it, thats what you asked for.

If you want to stick with the smaller engines, at least find a set of Cosworth DOHC 2.9l heads and start with something better. The blocks are basically the same, so the heads should just bolt on.

[drgrcr]

10strokin I too am in the process of building a warmed over 2.8, I am mostly going for improved fuel economy and more low speed torque. I will continue to post the progress on here as I go. At the moment I am looking for a set of heads that aren't cracked. I may have to pull several sets to find them but I will.

I am 58 years old. I have been involved in the automotive business since I was a small boy on my dads farm. 31 years in the automotive testing business. In that time I had the opportunity to work with lots of engineers, the last 14 years I was there I even had the title as a engineer tech. In all of those years I could count on one hand people that I would truly consider engineers.

I am building a 2.8 not because everybody says they are a useless engine I am building because I am curious. The mods I have done to already have improved the fuel economy 5 mpg and the engine has a severe case of mileosis.

I have certainly done my fair share of engine swaps, engine rebuilds....If I wanted too I could put a turbocharged Subaru engine in my Ranger, I have the resources and the ability. But I am going to build and modify the 2.8 because I want too. I am not building a boat, I am building a small pick up truck to run around town picking up parts, I want it to get 20 + mpg around town with the AC and the radio on, and a road trip once in awhile.

And like everybody else, I am just expressing an opinion and as everybody knows....opinion are like rear ends, everybody has one and most of them stink.

[AllanD]

Originally Posted by 10strokin

Calling someone Stupid because they think outside the box is a GUARANTEE you wont here from them again! Basically what you guys are inferring is that people like Sven Pruett, and Pat Kunz are Stupid because they wanted to DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT by advancing the small V6 cause, trying new things, seeing what works and what doesnt, coming up with excellent results. But because they didnt subscribe to the "bigger is better" mentality that emanates here on this forum, They are "stupid".

OK, I will stick to the Tech library on here, and my own trial and error with the Squires turbo system I am fabricating for my truck. I have no need for the close minded ignorance/arrogance from the keyboard warriors here. If i want that again, I will join a NASCAR chatroom. Cheers all!

Thinking outside the box is fine, what is being done here is thinking ouside reality.

Because someone wants to do something and succede doesn't make their actions or the end result "practical".

As for your belated mention of a TURBO, that is additional information that you did not provide up front so I regard this addition as backpedal-by-addition.

MY Job title here is "Tech Advisor", And that isn't a lightweight title here at TRS.

MY Job here is to provide technical information. Technical information is about TRUTH and Truth is not open to debate, it simply "is"

No, not "Truth as I see it", simply "Truth"

IF you take an engine that produces it's torque at a barely acceptable rpm
(like a 2.8)
and re-engineer it to spin faster you will DECREASE the torque at lower rpm
in favor of torque at higher rpm (this is a typical power increase)

What you lose is "Driveability"

THIS is REALITY.

You simply cannot do with a 2.8 or 2.9 what you can do with a 4.0 or 5.0

Remember the old saying "There is no replacement for displacement"?

and to the people who suggest "Turbo" or "blower" I'll ask won't that blower work even better on a bigger engine?

So how much effort do you want to expend trying to do an "End around" on reality?

If you don't like my explaining reality to you because it chaffes your ego, have a nice life, you won't be missed here at TRS.

If you want to aquire a clue and mabey actually learn from people who DO things rather than imagine/BS them stick around

Because TRS is a No Bullsh!t zone

[dangerranger83]

Well said AllanD.

Sent from my SGH-T499 using Tapatalk 2

[Insanejughead]

I'm actually disappointed with the outcome of this thread. I started following it to see how people helped 10Strokin find the answers to his questions, but instead found a steadily increasing mentality that was, in effect, badgering him to go with what already works.

10Strokin, I would love to hear about what you do with either one of those motors.

AllanD, sure, the larger engines work better for all purposes, but that doesn't answer for 10Strokin's nostalgia towards the smaller v6s. You have pushed your reasons well, but after he stated that the question is only towards the 2.8 or 2.9, you persisted.


Take a step back and see if that seems childish.

You as a Tech Advisor: Yes.
But, as Project Manager: No.

DangerRanger, I agree with the power and usefulness of the larger engines, too; but did you not see that 10Strokin was not concerned with them in the least bit? That's a rhetorical question, because I think this thread should be closed/deleted now.

[10strokin]

WOW!! drcrgr and Insanejughead actually put together logical posts!! Maybe we should keep this thread going after all...I CAN CARE LESS about 4.0 and 5.0. AS I STATED EARLIER, if i wanted to know about an engine swap, I WOULD HAVE POSTED THIS THREAD IN THAT SECTION! What is the title of this thread, 2.8 or 2.9 performance, NOT 4.0 OR 5.0 SWAPS!!! How this simple fact doesnt register in a so called "Approved Tech Advisors" head is beyond my scope of imagination. The NO BULLSHIT zone is comical at best, Indefensible at worst there AllanD. Snoranger, look twice at the pic u sent, it is from the "stupid" Morana Racing Website! I wonder how that would fit under the hood of anything!? I DID NOT however see a DISTRIBUTOR like i asked because THERE IS NOWHERE TO PUT ONE! When i want to spend 1000 dollars on a stand alone ignition system for a 4.0, I will pull out my AR15 and end my misery. Why I would have to defend myself on a site like this is reprehensible when I asked a simple question that NO ONE has answered yet.
Drgrcr, i would like to follow your thread, where can I find it? TO ALL: My truck is my daily driver, I cannot afford Nor do I have the time to take it off the road for weeks at a time trying to figure out electrical nightmares and bullshit with engine swaps. THIS IS WHY I AM STICKING TO 2.8 OR 2.9 ENGINES. A turbo with the correct cam, (slightly bigger than stock) will transform pulling power WITHOUT going nuts. My truck is a 4X4, so whoever asked if it was going to be a slammed racy truck which will never haul a load again can bite my nads. I can rebuild an engine practically in my sleep, Being in a tank command unit in the Army field stripping an M1 power unit and installing a new one in less than 3 hours running is great teaching. TRY THAT SOMETIME THERE AllanD. So engine building is NOT A PROBLEM. What i ORIGINALLY asked here was for performance tips and tricks for 2.8 AND 2.9 engines. If anyone can put together a rational thought on THIS QUESTION ALONE, I welcome it.

[dangerranger83]

To improve any engine, cam it, port, polish, bore it, stroke it, bigger injectors, bigger carb, bigger intake, bigger TB, headers, etc...

Those are the basics and if those aren't the answers you were hoping for then sorry about your luck.

I'm also glad the army provides you with what you need to fix what it may be you need to fix and no questions need be asked. But theres a reason why you are asking the basic questions, its because the knowledge was never provided to you our given to you hince why you went to others for an answer and got responce that you weren't expecting. Sorry its not what you wanted to hear.

Sent from my SGH-T499 using Tapatalk 2

[Insanejughead]

10Strokin, some things that I've seen done to a 2.9 to increase performance were: opening up the air box, going with K&N filter, free floating the rocker arms, and porting & polishing the intake and exhaust.

The great this is this: those kind of mods can be done with EFI or carb, which makes them definitely helpful in your case.

[James86]

Originally Posted by 10strokin

My truck is a 4X4, so whoever asked if it was going to be a slammed racy truck which will never haul a load again can bite my nads.

Take off your rage goggles my friend, I was trying to defend you, or maybe you skimmed over my post. I had pointed out that there are PLENTY of people with non- traditional engine configurations on here and that is was PERFECTLY reasonable for you to try something other than the 4.0/5.0 swap formula, and that not EVERYONE uses their TRUCK as a TRUCK. Some people do slam them, some people tow with them, some people make prerunners.

So bite your own nads.

And thanks for serving our country.

[snoranger]

Originally Posted by 10strokin

Holy Hell, check out MoranaV6Racing.com...all kinds of proven performance parts for 2.9 V6! Hmmmmmm...

You went from "I found the biggest pair of t!tties you've ever seen" to "toss the loud-mouthed b!tch out of the car." What happened there?

Originally Posted by 10strokin

Snoranger, look twice at the pic u sent, it is from the "stupid" Morana Racing Website!

You can pretty much drop a 2.9l distributor right into a 4.0l, with the right oil pump and driveshaft. There is a place to put one, its got an oil pump drive (or a cam sync on the later ones.)in the hole. You said to "show a carb and dist on a 4.0l". I showed you that it CAN be done with available parts. That was my point.

I agree though, that "intake" isnt well designed. (OK, its a pile of sh!t that would probably starve the front cylinders.)


I'll repeat my RATIONAL thought that you ignored....
Find a set of Cosworth DOHC 2.9l heads. If I ever come across a set of them, I'll build another supercharged 2.9l just for the hell of it.

Good luck, Let us know what you find.

[AllanD]

Originally Posted by 10strokin

WOW!! drcrgr and Insanejughead actually put together logical posts!! Maybe we should keep this thread going after all...I CAN CARE LESS about 4.0 and 5.0. AS I STATED EARLIER, if i wanted to know about an engine swap, I WOULD HAVE POSTED THIS THREAD IN THAT SECTION! What is the title of this thread, 2.8 or 2.9 performance, NOT 4.0 OR 5.0 SWAPS!!! How this simple fact doesnt register in a so called "Approved Tech Advisors" head is beyond my scope of imagination. The NO BULLSHIT zone is comical at best, Indefensible at worst there AllanD. Snoranger, look twice at the pic u sent, it is from the "stupid" Morana Racing Website! I wonder how that would fit under the hood of anything!? I DID NOT however see a DISTRIBUTOR like i asked because THERE IS NOWHERE TO PUT ONE! When i want to spend 1000 dollars on a stand alone ignition system for a 4.0, I will pull out my AR15 and end my misery. Why I would have to defend myself on a site like this is reprehensible when I asked a simple question that NO ONE has answered yet.
Drgrcr, i would like to follow your thread, where can I find it? TO ALL: My truck is my daily driver, I cannot afford Nor do I have the time to take it off the road for weeks at a time trying to figure out electrical nightmares and bullshit with engine swaps. THIS IS WHY I AM STICKING TO 2.8 OR 2.9 ENGINES. A turbo with the correct cam, (slightly bigger than stock) will transform pulling power WITHOUT going nuts. My truck is a 4X4, so whoever asked if it was going to be a slammed racy truck which will never haul a load again can bite my nads. I can rebuild an engine practically in my sleep, Being in a tank command unit in the Army field stripping an M1 power unit and installing a new one in less than 3 hours running is great teaching. TRY THAT SOMETIME THERE AllanD. So engine building is NOT A PROBLEM. What i ORIGINALLY asked here was for performance tips and tricks for 2.8 AND 2.9 engines. If anyone can put together a rational thought on THIS QUESTION ALONE, I welcome it.

Swapping in an RFI power unit on an M1 only proves that you have the parts, equipment and training, technically the only thing different from assembling it at the factory is you have t take the old one out.

But this has NO bearing on performance modifications to a 2.8/2.9

AND if you had mentioned from the very beginning that you intended to turbocharge the engine I would have MOVED this topic to the "Forced Induction" forum with no comment other than a "good luck".

Your original question was:

Originally Posted by 10strokin

Which do you guys think is easier to build more performance out of, 2.8 carbed engine, or 2.9 fuelie? I have seen videos of both on youtube, but i want you guys real world opinions.....Thanks!

And the simple answer without elaborate embellishment is it isn't.

Your question is based on the demonstrably false premise that either engine is easily improved and the fact is that they aren't.

Both engines are "Crack monsters"
I've never seen a 2.9 block that was not warped, it's block warpage that is one of the principle causes of heads cracking.

2.8 engines are far worse.

It is both easier and cheaper to swap in a 4.0 to get 160hp than it is to modify a 2.9 to make 160hp.

If I offend anyone by dispelling their dilusions? Well that's just too damned bad.

I will NOT say "I'm sorry", because doing that is my primary responsibility here

and if I save ONE person from wasting their time attempting the impossible/impractical while offending several others, that's a
trade-off I can easily accept.


As for your claim that I am contradicting myself, how are you going to install a turbo on a 2.8 without a lot of additional plumbing? nice in theory, a bit harder in practical reality...

Turbo's get hot and melt things...

With the limitations you state that:

Originally Posted by 10strokin

My truck is my daily driver, I cannot afford Nor do I have the time to take it off the road for weeks at a time trying to figure out electrical nightmares and bullshit with engine swaps.

Simple answer? you can't, because "modifying your engine" is no more practical to do while keeping the truck driveable than it is to replace the engine.

So if the vehicle MUST be sidelined.... See my logic?

are you getting over your attitude to actually start to understand?

When I did my 4.0 swap it took me a solid month to deal with the wiring.
BUT it actually all worked when I was done. (I had one small issue with a loose ground wire)

One more time: What you are asking for, to NOT sideline your vehicle for weeks (plural) AND get any material improvement in power simply is not possible no matter which method you choose to persue for that goal.
SO presupposing that the truck MUST be side-lined for weeks an engine swap is GUARANTEED to give you positive results.

"Successful attempts" to improve a 2.9 are subjective, anecdotal and hear-say from third parties.

Attempts to materially improve a 2.8 are quite frankly "turd polishing"

Hey, I don't want to fight or argue I'm just trying REAL HARD to keep you from wasting your time.

So relax and chill.

Originally Posted by Insanejughead

10Strokin, some things that I've seen done to a 2.9 to increase performance were: opening up the air box, going with K&N filter, free floating the rocker arms, and porting & polishing the intake and exhaust.

The great this is this: those kind of mods can be done with EFI or carb, which makes them definitely helpful in your case.

Opening the airbox to allow in more hot air from the engine compartment helps how exactly?

K&N filters have been repeatedly proven to not filter nearly as well and make ni increases in power unless they are compared to a filter that's literally caked with mud.

Free floating the rockers? I have yet to hear a rational explanation how this improves power.... SVEN PRUITT did it to keep the rockers in place at RPM's the typical RANGER engine is never gonna see...

[James86]

Originally Posted by AllanD

Free floating the rockers? I have yet to hear a rational explanation how this improves power.... SVEN PRUITT did it to keep the rockers in place at RPM's the typical RANGER engine is never gonna see...

OK, bit of a threadjack/detour, but if this is such a pointless mod, why is it in our tech library, and how do things end up in our tech library? I'm serious, not trolling here. Seeing somethings like shower drain adapters to slap a cone on your intake, or the free floating mod mentioned above ( http://www.therangerstation.com/tech...unz_Korner.htm and endorsed by the site's founder at the top) kinda make me wonder sometimes who's right, the people doing these mods - like e-fans, coil upgrades, and the rockers - or the people like you who like to point out that the factory coil paks are sufficient, and that e-fans use more energy via the alternator than a clutch fan uses. Personally, I'm a bit leery on the thermostat temp change thing myself.

I'm not knocking you, but sometimes I get a little confused when the tech library, which is someplace I assume is a collection of generally agreeably accurate info - and the threads with Premium Members, Ford Technicians, and Tech Advisors all say sometimes contradictory things.