Dishonest or Incompetent?

So I have not been working in a shop since December. For the most part I am enjoying being out of the shop, but I am running into an issue now that I have to rely on someone else for my state safety inspections. Let me start with the fact that I moved pretty far from where I was working, so while taking stuff there is not impossible, it isn't highly practical either.

There is a small shop here in town that I have been going to for SI. It is a family owned business, and I went to school with the daughter who now basically runs the shop, which is one of the reasons I have been going there.

When I had my truck in back in May they hit me for one legitimate failure, one that was a grey area, and one that would that anyone who was really paying attention would have known was a bad call. The last one being a "leaking" brake line. It was wet at a fitting I had opened up a few weeks before and never cleaned up. The brakes didn't fade, and looking at it while holding them would have shown it doesn't leak.

Anyway, today I took in my BII. I got hit for five things.

1) No backup lights
2) Exhaust leak at passenger side manifold collector
3) A few lights on my visor are out
4) Headlight aim on passenger side
5) Front brake hoses.


1) I brought it home and looked it over. Now the backup lights were working when I left home, and my wife says they were working when I backed into the parking spot at the garage. They work now when I have it at home too.

2) The exhaust was leaking a few weeks ago, I fixed it, drove it, no leak, can't feel it, can't hear it all the way to the garage. Got it home, it is leaking just as bad as it was before I fixed it.

3) The visor lights are considered accessories since they aren't factory and thus aren't even an inspection item in PA.

4) I pulled it up to my aiming board tonight. Aside from the RH (the side they said is out) being a bit dim they are aimed more or less correctly. I am actually amazed at how good they are since the front end is pretty beat up.

5) I'll give them that one. At least the LH one has a crack in the rubber. The RH one feels like it might, but I can't see the spot, I can only feel it with the wheel on.


Now once of the reasons I got out of wrenching is that I have developed a stress-related mental disorder and one of the biggest symptoms is paranoia. It seems like recently any time something doesn't go my way I jump to the assumption that the guy on the other end is out to get me. I'm not sure if I am doing that this time or not, but the reverse light thing, at least, seems to boil down to either he is too stupid to actually get it in reverse and have the key on, or he really thinks I am dumb enough to pay them to fix it and no look into it myself, after telling him I'm not paying him to do any work. Either way to me that means he doesn't need my business.

Opinions please.

Well...sounds like the guy is not doing you any favours in his assessment and not sure what you have available to you to correct that...or if you'd even go there considering your relationship.

Personally, I'd look for another shop...not that you will fare any better but if the reverse lights were working I'd fix what you know needs it and take it back to him.

the older I get the less likely I am to call someone on something...although I found myself biting my tongue only two days ago and ready to scream at someone...which reminds me...

Since my hospital stay and the drug cocktail I've been ingesting for the last two years I have had issues with paranoia also...they have gotten better since I dropped most of the drugs but the morphine was giving me both paranoia and very vivid dreams...as well as insomnia...so...

Are you on any morphine related drugs for anything currently? Or, if you are on any medication for stress or anything even unrelated I would do a search on all side effects...and if paranoia is even a remote possible side effect...talk to your doctor and ask for an alternative if available...or reduce your dose...

On my second hospital stay even after I told them what the morphine did to me on the first stay they gave me morphine again after the surgery on my abdominal aorta repair...and I was so freaked out I thought the nurse was going to try to mess with me...so I yanked out all the wires on my ECG monitor and set off the alarms...

I was take out of that room and the nurse was reassigned because my sister called to tell them we had issues...I was preparing to bean her with my wallet and it was full of coins...

Would have made an interesting story...but it was the morphine drugs that triggered it...so check your meds if applicable...scary stuff what they can induce when trying to fix something else...

I just started working at my first shop not very long ago at all. We also have safety inspections here in utah. I feel very confident saying that my shop is an honest one. We have one guy that is certified to do inspections and he has no problem letting smaller "non" safety related things go like visor lights that shouldn't be on the list anyways but will absolutely fail you if you have an actual problem.

To me it sounds like they they are both dishonest and incompetent.

I had a very similar situation happen to me with my exploder earlier this year before I started working at the shop. I took it in to one of the local lube shops and they failed me for several things that couldve been very easily swept under the rug (which I'll let them have that since it was stuff that is on an inspection) but they also failed me for several things not on the inspection list. I walked out of there with a "homie hookup" quote of $2400 which I promptly threw away and two offers to buy my truck for less than the scrap yard would be willing to pay. Needless to say, it wasn't hard to pick out a couple of crooks from that crowd.

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Any inspection shop should be required to NOT be able to do the repairs. There would still be problems but I think less. I've had inspections done by licensed shops and they seem to be less than straight shooters. I do my own work [and do it right] and I now buy my inspection from gray market sources for less than 1/2 of going market rate. I can see why there is inspections, some vehicle owners are clueless.

I don't think they were out to do anything wrong on purpose, I just see less and less skill in workers these days, it used to be rare now it is almost common.

The exhaust leak is real, and wet brake line fitting was real, if front hoses have cracks then that was real.

If one head light is dimmer than the other then assumption would be mis-aimed, may not have even tested it

Not sure what to say about backup lights, skilled labor is hard to come by

Added lights are tricky, especially if you did a good job installing them, inspection guys really can't be expected to know every factory or non-factory option on every vehicle ever made, so he could have thought they were a factory option, and should be included in inspection.

I would address the issues you can and take it back, or find another shop
I don't think they were over the top enough to be scammers

Thanks for the input guys.

Mark, I am not on any meds at the moment. In general I am able to keep the symptoms under control if I can keep my stress level under control. I am also lucky enough to be a John Nash (Beautiful Mind guy) type where once I recognize that I have an issue I can deal with, and generally control the condition just by force of will. I did some research into my overall symptoms and have an amateur diagnosis that I am not really willing to test with a head doc, mostly because there isn't much to be done and at my level the meds can be worse than the disorder.

Floored: I can understand the position of not having the inspecting shop do the repairs, but on the other hand that can be a pain for both parties. For the customer it means having to find a second shop they trust to do the work, for the first shop it means wasting time and lost money, since most SI rates here don't even cover what you pay the guy doing them. For the second shop it means working off someone else's assessment of a vehicle, which I always hated doing. I have had good and bad experiences in and out of dealerships. Here in PA it really boils down to the guy doing it because at the end of almost every line on the inspection manual something is left up to the opinion of the inspector. I always tried to take it easy on people and only fail hard and fast things, but not everyone is so nice.

Ron: I would like to believe the same, but like I said, I did fix that exhaust leak less than 10 miles before he nailed me on it, and it was good and quiet and not leaking when I dropped it off. The only thing is that I didn't clean the carbon tracking up, which gave clear evidence that it had been leaking. I think I am most suspicious because he hit me on two things that I had just fixed, both of which I am confident were still in proper working order when I dropped it. I know this guy is a stickler for exhaust leaks, and so I made sure to address them all before taking it to him. That and the fact that when my wife went to pick it up he tried to buy it from us "for parts". I am even willing to give them the headlight aim, because a few years ago the state changed the rules and said target boards (which is what I always used) were no longer good enough and we all had to switch to ones that you roll up to the vehicle and they basically judge the aim by where the brightest spot it, using an LSD. Having dealt with those POS units I can believe that one would call that light out of aim because the bright spot in the center is too dim to register on it properly.

Like I said, I'll give him the hoses, since they should be replaced, he did argue with me about the fitting on the truck, but I got my sticker on that one, and I might even give him the benefit of the doubt on the visor lights if the visor didn't still have the great big Lund badge clearly visible on it.

adsm08 said:

I might even give him the benefit of the doubt on the visor lights if the visor didn't still have the great big Lund badge clearly visible on it.

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I have never seen them from the factory on anything smaller than a 3/4 ton... and even then they are optional ($55 option last I checked) on 3/4 and 1 tons.

As a DIYer I understand your frustration with what seems, to us, like ignorant people doing a job they are not yet qualified to do, and maybe never will be, lol.

When dealing with smog and inspection tests, or Government in any form, I have found that it is "their game" and "their rules", and "they" can take their ball and go home leaving me out of luck and without a car unless I agree to their rules and play the game their way

Yes, push on the brake pedal and see if it holds pressure before failing a wet connection, makes sense to us, but they are probably not going to do that.

On an exhaust inspection maybe they have to hit pipes, Cats and mufflers with rubber mallet to check for rattles and rusted out areas, or give the pipes a good shake and maybe that loosened your seal.
I did have a collector stud that was stripped right where it snugged up the seal, I would tighten it and it would seal and then leak again, drove me nuts until I backed off the nut enough to see the problem, added a few washers and it's been fine for years.

Not on their side by any measure, and don't know what PA requirements are for these inspections or what the fines are for shops that pass "no big deal" faults, maybe there has been a recent change, so they are stricter now


Yes, I haven't seen visor lights as a factory option on any smaller vehicles, but we are also "truck" guys so know that
And maybe PA laws requires even owner added lights to work, I know if you add custom headlights or 3rd brake light they have to be working or you get a "fix it" ticket in my area, even if 3rd brake light wasn't factory added that year.
If it is there it has to be working
Fix it tickets don't have a fine involved if you "fix it" within 30 days and bring vehicle to a "cop shop" to show them whatever was broken is now working

RonD said:

Fix it tickets don't have a fine involved if you "fix it" within 30 days and bring vehicle to a "cop shop" to show them whatever was broken is now working

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When I got one for too dark of windows on a car I had just bought 13 years ago it was I had 30 days to fix it and if I got pulled over again I had a fine.

I removed the tint and nobody bugged me for next 2 years I had the car.

I am so glad I don't have to deal with this kind of crap.

adsm08 said:

Thanks for the input guys.

Mark, I am not on any meds at the moment. In general I am able to keep the symptoms under control if I can keep my stress level under control. I am also lucky enough to be a John Nash (Beautiful Mind guy) type where once I recognize that I have an issue I can deal with, and generally control the condition just by force of will. I did some research into my overall symptoms and have an amateur diagnosis that I am not really willing to test with a head doc, mostly because there isn't much to be done and at my level the meds can be worse than the disorder.

Click to expand...

One of the problems with self diagnosis is we may be deluded to begin with...lol. It sounds like you're on top of it...have you researched any non-drug ways to alleviate the symptoms? I know there are a number of methods available...but I've never researched it beyond getting off the drugs that I thought were causing the problem...

Amitriptyline was supposed to be a "happy" pill to reduce suicidal tendencies in amputees (and pain) and I was on that for almost a year before I realized it was causing other side effects that were hampering my recovery...

That's mostly why I asked you...the doctors didn't say anything about this to me at any point...I had to ask...and that was frustrating.

85_Ranger4x4 said:

When I got one for too dark of windows on a car I had just bought 13 years ago it was I had 30 days to fix it and if I got pulled over again I had a fine.

I removed the tint and nobody bugged me for next 2 years I had the car.

I am so glad I don't have to deal with this kind of crap.

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I had my front license plate ripped off in a car wash and was slow to put it back on...got pulled over and the cop said I left it off because it looked cool...

I was ready to report him but figured I'd just shut up and get it fixed...lol

Did you talk with the guy at all? I've taken my truck to shops and after just shooting the shit they will let small things slide because they know I'm not someone who will drive my vehicle into the ground, I just got my truck inspected, 5 minutes of going over the truck 25 minutes of under the hood asking me how I got the turbo setup working on a 4x4. haha

I hate SIs too.

I seem to have more trouble finding a local shop that will do them. The ones close to me are either open whenever they feel like, out of stickers, or let their license expire.

Right after I bought my Ranger, drove 30 miles east to finally find a shop that did them. They wanted me to leave the truck for the afternoon to do a 10 minute inspection. No thanks.

Drove 25 miles south, 10 minutes from closing, and he was going to fail it because of a loose headlight wire. Thankfully I got it working minutes before they locked the door.

I think they are a money grab more than anything else. Shops don't make anything on inspections, but its a good opportunity to pick up business.

In over 50 years of driving I have never lived anyplace that required safety or smog testing. Anchorage had smog tests up until last year but cancelled everything because modern cars simply do not pollute as much as cars once did. EPA testing allowed the reversal. Safety checks could be a good thing, I guess. Never found that I needed one, though.

I know all of my vehicles are 100% safe and I am glad we have no inspections out here, but wow, some of the stuff that's on the road is just plain scary. Drum brakes with no shoes and pinched off lines, broken leaf springs, you name it.

I don't know what to say about the shop. I don't like nit picky inspectors in any trade.

RonD said:

As a DIYer I understand your frustration with what seems, to us, like ignorant people doing a job they are not yet qualified to do, and maybe never will be, lol.

When dealing with smog and inspection tests, or Government in any form, I have found that it is "their game" and "their rules", and "they" can take their ball and go home leaving me out of luck and without a car unless I agree to their rules and play the game their way

Yes, push on the brake pedal and see if it holds pressure before failing a wet connection, makes sense to us, but they are probably not going to do that.

On an exhaust inspection maybe they have to hit pipes, Cats and mufflers with rubber mallet to check for rattles and rusted out areas, or give the pipes a good shake and maybe that loosened your seal.
I did have a collector stud that was stripped right where it snugged up the seal, I would tighten it and it would seal and then leak again, drove me nuts until I backed off the nut enough to see the problem, added a few washers and it's been fine for years.

Not on their side by any measure, and don't know what PA requirements are for these inspections or what the fines are for shops that pass "no big deal" faults, maybe there has been a recent change, so they are stricter now


Yes, I haven't seen visor lights as a factory option on any smaller vehicles, but we are also "truck" guys so know that
And maybe PA laws requires even owner added lights to work, I know if you add custom headlights or 3rd brake light they have to be working or you get a "fix it" ticket in my area, even if 3rd brake light wasn't factory added that year.
If it is there it has to be working
Fix it tickets don't have a fine involved if you "fix it" within 30 days and bring vehicle to a "cop shop" to show them whatever was broken is now working

Click to expand...

I get that position Ron, but on the other hand I spent 12 years as a state inspector as well. Still have my license, just no shop to issue a sticker from. While the penalties for lick 'n stick are hefty many many things are left to inspectors discretion. Failing accessory lights is not one of them. Also, banging on the exhaust isn't part of the inspection.