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2.9 help please...


96Indyram

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The 2.9 in my 87 cracked the old style heads
Found another 2.9 from a 86 bronco II. Inspecting the motor it has the newer heads.
It also looks like a rebuilt / crate engine because it is fairly clean, the freeze plugs look new..etc..
I bought the engine to swap with my old one. It was bolted to a auto transmission.

Removed my old engine. And noticed a few differences.
New engine has no knock senson in side of block. It dont have the egr valve and pipe
From exhaust manifold. Factory block off on intake.

My main issue.......
The crankshaft on the new engine sticks out the back of the block about a inch or more
Compared to my old engine. That measurement it from bell housing surface.

So if i bolt my flywheel and clutch to it..it will be a inch or more closer to my throwout bearing.

The engines look identical ... but the one i got is different for some reason.

Need guidance....
 


adsm08

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There is a spacer on the end of the crank for the auto trans units. It comes off, and then you bolt your flywheel on.

Also, with the loss of the knock sensor and EGR you will have a check engine light. Updating the computer to an 88+ will eliminate that, but it you have tail-pipe emissions testing in your area you may fail that as well if you ditch EGR.

Just a heads up kind of thing.
 

96Indyram

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Sweet! Glad to know it can be removed....just use a big hammer right? LOL
headding out to the garage to see what I can do....

No emission testing here, so I'm not to worried about the loss of the EGR.

Thanks for the reply! I was getting ready to start researching block #'s etc..
 

RonD

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All you really want is the block and heads so I would swap intake and exhaust from '87 to '86, and the knock sensor, that way sensors, wiring and EGR will remain as is.
Your computer is tuned for EGR and knock sensor use to prevent pinging/knocking, so deletion of either could force you into running higher octane fuel, $$

I would change the rear main seal while engine is out, cheap part and hard to get to if it does start leaking.
 
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adsm08

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Emissions testing or not I would get the non-egr non-knock sensor computer, for the reasons Ron listed. Also, it will kill the CEL because the computer won't miss the parts it isn't looking for.
 

96Indyram

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Yep the adapter slip right off...learn something new everyday.
Also I looked up a computer for a 1990 2.9 on O'rillies auto
$119 with $48 core. Cardone brand

OUCH!
 

4x4player

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Hey, ADSM08 I read your reply about the Knock sensor and wondering if you have the answer to my problem.
I submitted my issue in the immediate help section "Meltdown" (a Miner issue)
My truck is an '88, I don't know what year the engine is. (I replaced it about 3 years ago) It has a knock sensor. Perhaps my truck doesn't require the sensor?
 

adsm08

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If you have an 88 truck, then I assume you have an 88 computer. If so, and you put an 86 or 87 MY 2.9 in it with the knock sensor, then the sensor is just along for the ride. It won't have anywhere to plug in on the harness, and the computer won't miss it.
 

huh?

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if you do decide on another ecm try checking out advanced auto. the ecm for my 87 2.9l 5-speed was cheaper by far from those a-holes than anywhere else. part + freight = less than o'reilly's, and got here to oahu faster than oreilly's in house shipping.

LET IT BE KNOWN BY ONE AND ALL------- I IN NO WAY AM ENDORSING NOR TRYING TO SUPPORT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM THE RETAILING ENTITY KNOWN AS "ADVANCED AUTO". THE SUGGESTION SHARED ABOVE IS EXCLUSIVELY POSTED FOR THE POTENTIAL BENEFIT OF THE ORIGINAL POSTER, 96Indyram. AS A MATTER OF FACT, EXCEPT FOR THE GRACIOUS YOUNG LADY IN CUSTOMER SERVICE AND HER COWORKERS LIKE HERSELF WHO AT LEAST APPEAR TO GIVE A RATS' BUTT ABOUT BUYERS SUCH AS OURSELVES, THEY CAN ALL KISS MY BIG WHITE WIGGLY BACKSIDE.:thefinger:

indeed, i have an issue with them.
 

Gilbee01

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I think Ron has the better idea and just replace rather than swap. For the ecc pull it out of a junker. 25$ . Make sure the year has the egr knock sensor. Believe it or not soon all vehicles will have to be tested.


-gil-
 

96Indyram

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update time. need ideas.

Got the new motor in, eveything is hooked up minus the egr valve and knock sensor.
this engine did not have them...so plugs are just hanging.
Engine starts...with help (starter fluid), but not on its own...then dies
Great fuel pressure at the fuel rail, and everything looks good I just can't figure out why it wont start and run on its own.

help?
 

RonD

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All fuel injected engines have an ECT(engine coolant temp) SENSOR, not to be confused with the temp SENDER(1-wire) for the dash board temp gauge.
The 2-wire ECT sensor is only used by the computer, it is used to set "choke mode" or Open Loop.
When computer sees coolant is cold it will set a high idle, rich fuel mix and advanced timing(just like choke did on Carb :))

Hard cold start could mean ECT sensor is "telling computer" engine is warm when it's cold.
These are easy to test, Ground volt meter, turn key on, use a pin to pierce one wire on ECT sensor, 5 volts is power from computer, so test the other wire.
Less than 5 volts is the temp reading for computer:
4volts is cold, very cold 32degF
2volts about 100degF
less than 1 volt is warm, .5v = 220degF

So the lower the voltage the warmer the computer thinks the engine is.

Spark
With single coil systems there were 2 voltages for the "+" on the coil.
Start voltage is 12volts(battery voltage), only used when cranking with starter motor
Run voltage is about 7-8volts, this prevents coil from overheating

An engine that fires when cranking and then dies could have a bad RUN wire

Test voltage at "+" on coil with key on, should be 7-8 volts, could be 12volts.
Test voltage when cranking, should be 10-12volts, depending on starter motor power draw.
"-" on coil is not a Ground, use engine or battery for ground with meter

You can run a jumper wire from battery "+" to coil "+", this will by-pass module start/run voltage, this is just for testing, it won't hurt anything short term but coil will run hotter.
 
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96Indyram

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Thanks Ron...I will check the items you listed.

But it seems like the fuel injectors are not firing.
I shoot starting fluid into throttle body and it will run until it uses up the starting fluid then dies.
I am using all the same wireing harnesses from my truck.
but I am using the fuel injectors that came in the motor.
The fuel pressure regulator is from my old motor.
The throttle body and tps is from my old motor.

There was one wire I couldn't remember exactly where it went.
A red wire in the harness that plugs into the distributor.
its a single wire with a flat round end (like the ground straps) I bolted it to the back of
the cylinder head.

Another wire on the driver side fender ...red wire..round black connector..with flat blade connect inside. Its not hooked to anything ...but I can't remember if it was before I tore into the truck.
 

RonD

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All Fuel injectors should have 12volts(battery voltage) when key is on, you should check that(both wires on each injector should show 12v).
One red wire comes from a splice and runs to each injector.
The 12volts comes from the EEC relay, this relay is closed by key being turned on.
EEC relay also powers Fuel Pump relay, so if you hear fuel pump coming on the EEC relay is closing.

The computer Grounds the injectors to open them, your 2.9l will be "Batch Fire" fuel injection.
Batch Fire means, on a V6, than 3 injectors are opened at the same time.
So there are only two ground wires from the computer, should be a Light green/white wire and a Tan/red wire, each hooked up to 3 different injectors.
Hard to test these without a "noid light", the ground is so brief its hard to see on meter or test light when cranking.
 

96Indyram

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Ok here are my results with key on.

Fuel injector plug unplugged.
12v red wire 0v on the other 2
Plugged in
12v on all three wires

Coil
12v on both wires / sides

Etc sensor
4.5v greenwire unplugged 0v black wire
Plugged in 2.7v green wire 0v black wire

Iac
12v both wires plugged in

Sensor under iac in side of intake ?
2.9v green wire 0v black wire

Tps
4.8v red wire
0.9v green wire
0v black wire

Fuel pressure 39 psi

I can floor the gas pedal while trying to start and it cranks faster and acts
Like it it trying to start...but just cant light off.
 

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