4.0 starter in my '86 BII Questions....

shadetree said:

Why not just jumper the starter solenoid batt terminal to the solenoid coil, and run one cable from the fender relay per the stock setup/diagram? Then the cable will only be hot when the starter is being used. Much simpler. shady

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i would much rather have the lead to the starter be only hot while the starter is running... i dont like the idea of that cable being able to chaff and short out the battery. i tried several different setups before i settled on what i have now, my previous results were anything from click but no crank, to starter sticks on and wont disengage. now that i look, im pretty sure that the tech library article, 4x4junkie and i have all done the same setup though....

kunar said:

the bottom terminal on the solenoid is always hot. it ties the battery, starter and power distribution block together. you will have a bunch of fusible links there instead of the power distribution block. the top terminal is the signal wire for the solenoid on the starter. the far left terminal is the original signal wire to trip the original starter relay.

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So the top small wire is a signal wire to the 4.0 starter solenoid; in stock 2.9 form, that is the wire terminal that goes to the 2.9 starter.

Am I seeing that correctly?

I am going to route my wire in a different way. I am going to go over to the fire wall the same way it does now, except I am going to stay on top of the engine and drop down the driver side. I don't like the idea of the wire crossing under the engine the way it does now.

mjones said:

So the top small wire is a signal wire to the 4.0 starter solenoid; in stock 2.9 form, that is the wire terminal that goes to the 2.9 starter.

Am I seeing that correctly?

I am going to route my wire in a different way. I am going to go over to the fire wall the same way it does now, except I am going to stay on top of the engine and drop down the driver side. I don't like the idea of the wire crossing under the engine the way it does now.

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yup, you got it. i wouldnt mind changing how things are set up. i dont like how that always hot wire is run either. what i have now was put together at 10 or 11 at night and i had work at 6:30 the next morning. i havent had any issues but i do plan on changing it before i do have issues. im just not sure exactly what i want to do.

Sweet. Thanks for the tip. I was more worried about that than I was trying to figure out which wires in my automatic wiring harness to jump for the neutral safety switch to work till I could get a manual transmission wiring harness.

You don't know by chance do you? Or do those 2 wires not have to be tied together for the truck to run if I have a CPP (Clutch Pedal Position) Switch?

mjones said:

Sweet. Thanks for the tip. I was more worried about that than I was trying to figure out which wires in my automatic wiring harness to jump for the neutral safety switch to work till I could get a manual transmission wiring harness.

You don't know by chance do you? Or do those 2 wires not have to be tied together for the truck to run if I have a CPP (Clutch Pedal Position) Switch?

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try jumping red/light blue to white/pink. i just cut the plug off and used a butt connector to attach those two. under the dash theres a connector thats just got a single u-shaped wire that should be red/light blue. unplug that u-shaped jumper, connect the other side of the plug into the switch on the clutch pedal. for back up lights, you want a purple/orange and a black/pink to connect to the switch on the transmission.

dont hold me to accuracy of these, it should be right but try to double check on your own....

I already have the CPP functioning, even though I still have the manual; getting used to using it again I guess.

I will investigate those colors more with the skimpy wiring diagrams that I have.

Thanks

shadetree said:

Why not just jumper the starter solenoid batt terminal to the solenoid coil, and run one cable from the fender relay per the stock setup/diagram? Then the cable will only be hot when the starter is being used. Much simpler. shady

Click to expand...

BTDT

That just causes the pinion gear to chatter against the flywheel for a few seconds after you release the key (the spinning armature causes the solenoid to stay engaged until it finishes winding down). You have to control the solenoid separately.

4x4junkie said:

BTDT

That just causes the pinion gear to chatter against the flywheel for a few seconds after you release the key (the spinning armature causes the solenoid to stay engaged until it finishes winding down). You have to control the solenoid separately.

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Interesting. I hadn't thought about back EMF. I haven't played with PMGR starters much, but have modified tons of GM starters. shady

Interesting. I reconstructed my stock Exploder cranking circuit because general engineering principles say using two relays when one will do is incompetent. There HAD to be a reason or it simply would not have happened. You found a plausible one.

I suppose the solenoid on the starter itself could be used by itself if the ignition switch contacts in the column could handle the load, although if Ford didn't do it that way, I can only assume the ignition switch isn't rated for that (now that I think about it, it's probably 5-10 amps to energize it).

4x4junkie said:

I suppose the solenoid on the starter itself could be used by itself if the ignition switch contacts in the column could handle the load, although if Ford didn't do it that way, I can only assume the ignition switch isn't rated for that (now that I think about it, it's probably 5-10 amps to energize it).

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Another reason Ford has the circuit this way is because the fender relay also serves as a current limiter. I haven't found a good description of this circuit as to why it needs limiting.

I don't think the solenoid will draw that much current as they are momentary contact solenoids. Most do fine with ignition switch wiring. shady

4x4junkie said:

BTDT

That just causes the pinion gear to chatter against the flywheel for a few seconds after you release the key (the spinning armature causes the solenoid to stay engaged until it finishes winding down). You have to control the solenoid separately.

Click to expand...

thats exactly what i tried first, and thats my exact result. thats why i changed things, how i ended up with what i have now.

4x4junkie said:

I suppose the solenoid on the starter itself could be used by itself if the ignition switch contacts in the column could handle the load, although if Ford didn't do it that way, I can only assume the ignition switch isn't rated for that (now that I think about it, it's probably 5-10 amps to energize it).

Click to expand...

ive also had mine setup like this. the red/blue wire that normally would go to the relay on the fender was connected to the wire that runs to the solenoid on the starter. the result was a click, and no start. my assumption was that the stock ignition circuit doesnt provide enough current to pull the solenoid on the starter, but im no electrical engineer.