m5od - quicker shifting?

alwaysFlOoReD · Jan 22, 2017

Is there a way I can "fix" the m5od to shift quicker? Such as removing every second tooth on certain gears?

This question is geared towards my race truck where I do two types of races; a 200' drag on sand or gravel, and a 1/2 mile groomed off road track with jumps.

Thanks,
Richard

RonD · Jan 22, 2017

Automatic..................

Ford C4 is popular with drag racers

On manuals the Dog Gear needs to mesh with selected "gear" and also slide from 1st to 2nd so that all takes time
Not sure removing "teeth" from the Dog Gears would help anything, either they line up and engage or they don't line up

Assuming 4.0l transmission
The 3.40 1st gear ratio to the 2.05 2nd gear ratio means larger RPM change(drop) is needed for input shaft to match output shaft when shifting from 1st to 2nd, and that takes time.
Good clutch disconnect and good pilot bearing means input shaft can be slowed down faster to RPM match "gear" and Dog gear

You could look at/for transmissions with closer ratios, not sure they make closer ratio gear sets for the M5OD-R1.
Doesn't sound like you need Over Drive, lol

It looks like they do make a closer ratio for the M5OD-R1, used in the 3.0l and 4cyl models
3.0l trans is 3.72 / 2.20 / 1.50 / 1.00 / 0.79
4.0l trans is 3.40 / 2.05 / 1.31 / 1.00 / 0.79

So you could put the 3.0l gear set in the 4.0l trans
This would mean closer RPMs so faster RPM matching

They do say synthetic transmission oil makes for faster shifting, but just passing on anecdotal stories, don't know that first hand.

alwaysFlOoReD · Jan 22, 2017

3.0l 3.72 > 2.20 = 1.52 difference
4.0l 3.40 > 2.05 = 1.35 difference
I think that means the 4.0l trans is the close ratio?

RonD · Jan 22, 2017

Oops, brain fart, never do math in your head

RonD · Jan 22, 2017

What about your 2nd to 3rd shifting and 3rd to 4th does that seem to go faster for you?
.7 ratio change and .3 ratio change, just seeing if it is RPM match that is the problem

alwaysFlOoReD · Jan 22, 2017

The problem is the drags. The 1st to 2nd shift has a krunk sound when I shift. I guess I'm shifting faster than the trans likes. I'm good as far as gearing and tire size as I'm at the end of the drag strip at the top rpm of 2nd gear. I have 31" tires and 3.73 gearing. On the short course it doesn't matter because we never race the same track more than one weekend so the need to set gearing or tire size to a particular track isn't there. I'd like to keep the manual as there isn't the parasitic drag like a auto. But an auto never misses a shift either....

Transman304 · Jan 22, 2017

Why not swap out to a T56 and be done. Seems like it will would do what you are trying to get your M50D to do. And can be upgraded much easier. The grinding off of teeth really is interesting to me. Let us know how that works out.

RonD · Jan 22, 2017

Yes, shift speed makes up for any power loss with automatics on short runs

Have you driven an M5OD-R1HD, for 4.0l SOHC, just wondering it they might have a better 1st/2nd shift setup
Suppose to be same transmission internally, but never test drove one to see what it felt like

alwaysFlOoReD · Jan 22, 2017

Transman304 said:
Why not swap out to a T56 and be done. Seems like it will would do what you are trying to get your M50D to do. And can be upgraded much easier. The grinding off of teeth really is interesting to me. Let us know how that works out.

I'll have to look into the t56. I've heard of grinding teeth years ago. apparently it was a trick used by Sox for their manual setups.

RonD said:
Yes, shift speed makes up for any power loss with automatics on short runs

Have you driven an M5OD-R1HD, for 4.0l SOHC, just wondering it they might have a better 1st/2nd shift setup
Suppose to be same transmission internally, but never test drove one to see what it felt like

I haven't had the opportunity to use the m5od-r1hd.
I do have a c-5 but it was in the fire from last spring. I haven't looked to see how bad it got burnt. An initial look last year says it could be OK. To do it right would be about $2500.00 but that is money I don't have right now.

don4331 · Jan 22, 2017

Any way you can tighten up the synchros? Tremec's later transmissions go to dual and triple cone designs? Of course, Jerico completely removes the synchros in his transmissions and runs some different profiles.

Thought about running a slipper clutch, so you don't have to shift at all?

What you want is a Lenco

Although, if you thought a built C5 was expensive; you don't want to look at a Lenco. Lenco is...interesting on street; if you aren't in top gear, you don't have any engine breaking...

Autos are good for consistency (always shift at same point/never miss a shift) which makes them popular for bracket racing. They also tend to be easier on parts.

lil_Blue_Ford · Jan 24, 2017

Might be a crazy idea, but what about using the second gear from the 3.0 transmission?

3.40 | 2.20 would be a 1.20 difference...

Sent from my kite using a trebuchet

Blown · Jan 25, 2017

I ran a 5 speed truck tranny for years (Mazda then ZF. I always had the complaint of not getting to second very fast like you. A Mustang tranny would shift quicker.
Newer auto's are tunable and will lock the torque converter in second gear. That eliminates the power loss of the fluid connection. You also get torque doubling off the line from the torque converter.

My rig wouldn't get out of 1st gear in a short drag, it doesn't shift till 60mph and 6,200RPM at WOT.

85_Ranger4x4 · Jan 25, 2017

Didn't Supercoupes use the M5OD with different ratios?

Probably too scarce to find out of they had similar problems but might be worth checking into.

alwaysFlOoReD · Jan 25, 2017

Its not so much the ratios, by how fast I can get from one gear to the next. I installed a Hurst shifter a few years ago and that helped with less throw and tighter pattern, but now its the gears themselves that I think are the problem. Its maybe the design. That's why I was thinking remove every second tooth, then there is half the likelyhood of teeth getting in the way of shifting gears. However I don't know how that would affect strength or even help. Thanks

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

RonD · Jan 25, 2017

What year is your M5OD-R1?

AllanD wrote this about 1994 and up

Internally there are also differences.... 2nd & 3rd have assymetrically
cut synchro dogs basically reducing the tendency of the synchro
to "Get in the way" when trying to shift quickly.
These are also equipped with composite friction material lined synchro rings
greatly reducing wear on the rings and thus maintain shoft quality.

IF you are used to the earlier Mazda's there is something of a
learning curve with the newer style synchro, most important is
learning to IGNORE the typical engagement "chunk"

Basically the "saw tooth" shape of the tooth allows the collar to ride
into the synchro and engage the "flat" side of the dogs and "Capture"
the collar.

m5od - quicker shifting?

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