Wire that grounds the fuel pumps and injectors from battery where is it?

I'm almost at the finish line, Been a long journey bringing my truck back from the dead, after some fellow students from Hampshire College (yea the same one that made the news for burning stuff) heavily vandalized my truck. Because I'm a vet and my truck is built to be a mudder. They didn't like the way that it "looked", long story short, they were triggered. Whatever the hell that is suppose to mean...

Anyhow, after replacing my whole fuel system, my smashed windows, my sliced mikey tires, rebuilding my top end and even replacing my flywheel and clutch. I finally got to hear my truck kinda run for about ten seconds, until it died. For the first time in a very long time.

It starts with starting fluid which tells me that there is a fuel problem going on. But I have fuel pressure, both fuel pump work, new regulator new fuel filter. Tested my fuel injectors for pulse there working (but doesn't rule out that they could be gummed up). But I remember reading a long time ago that there is a grounding wire from the battery cable which supplies the fuel pump and injector grounds. I don't see one on my battery cable. Does anyone have the schematics or even a quick picture of where it leads to, so that I can make a ground real quick?
I think that may be my ticket to getting my baby back. I only have about a hour of day light left before the temps drop.

sexybluelady said:

...triggered. Whatever the hell that is suppose to mean...

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triggered, i suppose, is a modern day psychobabble term that allows some people to justify normally unjustifiable actions they have done and render themselves unaccountable for any responsibility for the consequences of those actions. unfortunate that you have such turds as learningmates at your institute of higher learning.

the following only applies to your 1988, hope that is the year ranger your talking about:

the ground wires between the ecm and the batt(-) didn't come from the factory like that. i cut the 20, 40, and 60 wires, the grounding wires for the ecm as long as i could, stripped the ends, and twisted them together with a fourth wire that i sent nonstop to the battery(-) clamp. there's a grounding point somewhere near the ecm, but it was 1:30 in the morning and bypassing any and all possible faulty/corroded connections = about 5 minutes, while pulling more panels/following wires/pulling ground fastener/sanding/refastening wires to probably hard to reach point= NFW.


http://www.ludicrous-speed.com/automotive/technical/FordFuelInjection/eec.html <---- numbering for the wires on the ecm harness

if you pull the ecm harness there are numbers to indicate the numbers of the wires. 20, 40, and 60 are all on one end of the harness. i can't say which wire corrolates to which system it serves, i.e. relays, injectors, etc. also, if you have the harness off you can check continuity between the 20, 40, and 60 pins on the harness and, if i may recommend, the batt(-) clamp.

anywho, i'm figuring you want to get to it with your truck and i gotta go choke my grandson's bloody neck. good luck and kudos to your perseverence in the repair and rehab of the damage caused by those adults whose "triggers" got yanked...or pulled... or stroked...

So the main ground for the computer is a single barrel squeeze connector off the battery negative. If that one isn't hooked up, and the smaller one that goes over to the core support aren't connected the engine won't run.

Wow...17 rep points with only 136 posts!

I'm changing my user name to "Sexy One Legger with Attitude"...or something like that...at this rate you will have surpassed me and everyone else by the time you hit 1,000 posts...

Sounds like you are on your way to fixing this...not much I can contribute to the actual problem though...

adsm08 said:

So the main ground for the computer is a single barrel squeeze connector off the battery negative. If that one isn't hooked up, and the smaller one that goes over to the core support aren't connected the engine won't run.

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adsm08 said:

So the main ground for the computer is a single barrel squeeze connector off the battery negative. If that one isn't hooked up, and the smaller one that goes over to the core support aren't connected the engine won't run.

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Thanks for correcting my misinformation and incorrect assumption regarding this. Dislike giving out info that is not correct that may potentially set someone back.

Another assumption i make, too often i suppose, is assuming that some of my "fixes" that i try to describe are understood to be not "standard" or "by the book". take my previous post for example- i would think most would understand that i simply made a new/replacement circuit between the ecm harness and the neg batt cable clamp that wasn't OEM quality. i have pictures in my mind of you, mark-88, and a couple dozen other members thinking, "Heh, you just described a repair that i did... but geez, huh?, at least i wrapped some electrical tape around MY wires." I'm sure a lot of us are running altered("customized") circuits or other vehicle components. But this leaves out those who don't quite yet have some understanding of whatever topic is being discussed scratching their head even harder going, "WTH huh?, what, huh?". Just need to be more vigilant in the future.

WOW! sorry to be dropping that in your thread sexybluelady... back to the original topic- if your noid lights are strobing(here i am assuming again. that you used noid lights to verify injector pulsing, that is.) and your fuel pumps are pumping fuel then it would seem the grounds should be good.

at this point i'm sorry to say, as mark_88 says up above me: " .not much I can contribute to the actual problem though..

adsm08 said:

So the main ground for the computer is a single barrel squeeze connector off the battery negative. If that one isn't hooked up, and the smaller one that goes over to the core support aren't connected the engine won't run.

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Thanks Adsm. I was going to respond last night but I fell asleep at the pc. Had on of those long frustrating days. I have to dig in my engine bay to see if I can find the "missing link" wire. I always have some trouble going from working on high end foreign cars to old school vehicles that "can be fixed with duck tape and two whiskey bottles". It's the transition that kills me, and forces me to K.I.S.S.

Do you happen to know what pin that ground goes to? Then I can trace it back and find it.

Also I've always wanted to ask you is your profile avatar a picture of your face? photoshopped on?

Mark_88 said:

Wow...17 rep points with only 136 posts!

I'm changing my user name to "Sexy One Legger with Attitude"...or something like that...at this rate you will have surpassed me and everyone else by the time you hit 1,000 posts...

Sounds like you are on your way to fixing this...not much I can contribute to the actual problem though...

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Lol, I like that user name, I may have to requisition it from yea. haha
I never paid real attention to the rep points, until you brought it up. I have posted helped out some people in the past when they were seeking help on a truck issue. That may be were it's from. I do not post much. But when I do post, I try to make it count for something or have a purpose. The rest of the time I just troll around. Reading through various DIY threads from people's builds or tech papers, pictures of different setups and builds, etc.

huh? said:

triggered, i suppose, is a modern day psychobabble term that allows some people to justify normally unjustifiable actions they have done and render themselves unaccountable for any responsibility for the consequences of those actions. unfortunate that you have such turds as learningmates at your institute of higher learning.

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The college is filled with rich spoiled brats who have never had to take responsibility for any of their actions. Then they take a single class on a social justice topic and run ramped with it. Acting first and thinking later. I was one of five other students who were over the age of 30 that went there. And only two of us lived on campus. I was a Adult who has lived a life and been out in the "real world" and didn't come from money. Mix that in with a think they already know it all pack of privilege children and it will always equal a disaster.

Thanks for the info on the grounding wire. It a pain because my truck is so close to running and yet so far from it. Yes I have a noid light set, I also used another tool that I have that tells me the voltage and when they are opening and closing. I have a feeling that it is something so simple and stupid that I missed. Like this ground wire issue or something else that I over looked.

sexybluelady said:

I'm almost at the finish line, Been a long journey bringing my truck back from the dead, after some fellow students from Hampshire College (yea the same one that made the news for burning stuff) heavily vandalized my truck. Because I'm a vet and my truck is built to be a mudder. They didn't like the way that it "looked", long story short, they were triggered. Whatever the hell that is suppose to mean...

Anyhow, after replacing my whole fuel system, my smashed windows, my sliced mikey tires, rebuilding my top end and even replacing my flywheel and clutch. I finally got to hear my truck kinda run for about ten seconds, until it died. For the first time in a very long time.

It starts with starting fluid which tells me that there is a fuel problem going on. But I have fuel pressure, both fuel pump work, new regulator new fuel filter. Tested my fuel injectors for pulse there working (but doesn't rule out that they could be gummed up). But I remember reading a long time ago that there is a grounding wire from the battery cable which supplies the fuel pump and injector grounds. I don't see one on my battery cable. Does anyone have the schematics or even a quick picture of where it leads to, so that I can make a ground real quick?
I think that may be my ticket to getting my baby back. I only have about a hour of day light left before the temps drop.

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IF engine starts with starting fluid then you have spark and compression.

So yes, as you surmised, fuel system is most likely cause of the no start.

Fuel pump should run for 2 seconds each time key is turned on, easy to hear it.
It only runs for 2 seconds, so repeat key on/off as much as you want to confirm pump is running.
If it is then computer, fuel pump fuse, fuel pump relay, inertia switch and fuel pump are good and so is the ground.

Fuel injectors get 12volts(red wire on each injector) when key is turned on, that 12volts comes from EEC Relay(next to fuel pump relay), not the computer.
Injector Ground wires come from the computer, computer pulses Ground to open and close injectors, that pulsing ground will flash a Noid light, but hard to detect on any "meters".

The Computer gets the "timing" of the injector Ground pulses from either the electronic distributor(TFI) OR the Crank Position(CKP) Sensor.
So no timing pulse = no injector pulse.

If you have access to a Noid light then connect it to one injector and test if you are or are not getting ground pulses.

For all injectors to be clogged would be a long shot, not a "no shot" but would be way way down on the list.
If a few were clogged engine would still start, it would run poorly but would start

RonD said:

IF engine starts with starting fluid then you have spark and compression.

So yes, as you surmised, fuel system is most likely cause of the no start.

Fuel pump should run for 2 seconds each time key is turned on, easy to hear it.
It only runs for 2 seconds, so repeat key on/off as much as you want to confirm pump is running.
If it is then computer, fuel pump fuse, fuel pump relay, inertia switch and fuel pump are good and so is the ground.

Fuel injectors get 12volts(red wire on each injector) when key is turned on, that 12volts comes from EEC Relay(next to fuel pump relay), not the computer.
Injector Ground wires come from the computer, computer pulses Ground to open and close injectors, that pulsing ground will flash a Noid light, but hard to detect on any "meters".

The Computer gets the "timing" of the injector Ground pulses from either the electronic distributor(TFI) OR the Crank Position(CKP) Sensor.
So no timing pulse = no injector pulse.

If you have access to a Noid light then connect it to one injector and test if you are or are not getting ground pulses.

For all injectors to be clogged would be a long shot, not a "no shot" but would be way way down on the list.
If a few were clogged engine would still start, it would run poorly but would start

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Thank you for the reply, I have already put my noid lights on it and all injectors are pulsing. I'm aware that it would start with a few gummed up injectors. I was just thinking outwardly and typing up everything that came to mind. I have check fuel pressure with the key on and key off. Both pumps turn on for their allowed duration and are in working order.
I have a spare testing EEC that I use to help daig problems. I pulled out my power probe it is telling me that that I have 12 volts on each injector. I don't have someone to turn the engine over while I test and my remote starter is MIA. I'm still leaning toward a bad ground somewhere. I need to eat now and sundown is around 4:30. I do remember messing with the inertia switch years ago and by passing it. I have a wanted ad up for a new one along with a connector so that I can splice it back in. Just so that it is one less thing to knock off of the "it may be this" list.
thanks for the help and info guys. I'm still turning wrenches on this thing. I will have it running by the end of the week. OR at least that is what I keep telling myself.
But for now I need a break. I need to eat and I have to put a clutch in my dodge stealth. I still have that motor on the hoist waiting to go back into my car.

ARGHHHH toy's and the time it takes to keep them going....

If Noid light flashes, and you hear the fuel pump starting, then push on the Schrader valve pin on fuel rail to double check that gasoline not water is coming out.

Because that is all that would be left.

Engine starts when you add fuel manually, starting fluid, so spark and compression are there.
Fuel pump works, so you have at least some pressure
Injectors are opening(Noid light)

So the only thing left is that you do not have gasoline in the fuel rail

RonD said:

If Noid light flashes, and you hear the fuel pump starting, then push on the Schrader valve pin on fuel rail to double check that gasoline not water is coming out.

Because that is all that would be left.

Engine starts when you add fuel manually, starting fluid, so spark and compression are there.
Fuel pump works, so you have at least some pressure
Injectors are opening(Noid light)

So the only thing left is that you do not have gasoline in the fuel rail

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I have gas in my fuel rail, when I had my fuel pressure gauge hooked up it showed pressure. And yup I also pushed on my schrader valve and had fuel spray out. This truck has left me shaking my head.
I haven't cut into my wiring harness yet, I am not a fan of cutting up and splicing into my ECU wiring harness unless I have no other choice. I guess I need a second pair of eye balls to look at my truck to see what I'm missing.
I also redid my timing for the 20th time to see if it was off which it is not.

sexybluelady said:

Lol, I like that user name, I may have to requisition it from yea. haha
I never paid real attention to the rep points, until you brought it up. I have posted helped out some people in the past when they were seeking help on a truck issue. That may be were it's from. I do not post much. But when I do post, I try to make it count for something or have a purpose. The rest of the time I just troll around. Reading through various DIY threads from people's builds or tech papers, pictures of different setups and builds, etc.

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Haha...well, for what I lack in knowledge and helpful answers I try to make up with huge numbers of posts...that's where the word "numb" comes from...I sort of numb them and make them number with numbers...so they actually forget they had a problem in the first place...

It's like reverse psychology but going forward in reverse like those stunt drivers...

Engine wouldn't start with starting fluid if spark timing was that far off.

Same with injector timing, if Noid light flashes, then injectors are opening and fuel is getting into the intake, whether or not that happens with intake valve open doesn't matter for starting, fuel will be sucked in when it does open.

One thing, does it stay running if you keep adding starting fluid?
If it dies when you release Key from START position, then that would point to wiring issue with ignition switch or spark system.
On older system there were separate START and RUN power wires for spark system.

Well I was determined to get my truck up and running today. More snow storms are coming.
I messed around with a few little things, and then hit it with starter fluid again and held the throttle open, my goal was to get the truck warmed up. After about a min of manually holding it open around 1500rpm. The truck idled on it's own. I checked for a CEL light, none. Check my temp gauge ( I thought I smelled hydrocarbons) and got scared that I may have a bad head gasket or a leak. I will probably still do a leak down test to make double sure, just to ease my mind. Anyhow temp was fine and steady. My brake light is on, I'll check that out later.

I let it idle for about a good seven minutes, (with a smile on my face) I haven't heard my truck run in years!! Shut it down then started it back up. I wanted to see if it would start smoothly on it's own or if it would need starter fluid again. The truck started up fine on the first go.

I'm going to wait a few hours let the motor get cold again and see if it starts up fine. If it doesn't and I need to aid it until the engine warms up again. I'm going to suspect my engine temp sensor to be bad. And check it out. If so that is the solution to my problem and turned out to be a easy and simple fix. After I ran around pulling my hair out trying to figure out what was going on.

Right now I'm taking a break it's ice rain outside and I need to warm up a bit and eat.
Thank you gents for all of your help.

Brake light on dash is probably e-brake switch or electrical connector on Master cylinder

Only explanation for the no start until it ran for a bit would be bad gas in fuel system, water is heavier than gasoline so settles to the bottom of the tank when vehicle sits.
All gasoline has water in it.
But driving it keeps water from concentrating at the bottom of tank, where fuel pump pickup is.

ECT(engine coolant temp) sensor tells computer when to run Choke Mode, Rich mix, high idle and advanced spark timing.
Usually located near thermostat
There are TWO temp devices on fuel injected engines
ECT sensor, used only by the computer
ECT SENDER, used only by dash board temp gauge

Sender usually only has 1 wire connected, it uses engine as a ground via it's threads
ECT sensor always has two wires

The Glove Test is a simple, easy and free way to test for cylinder leak, i.e. head gasket or cracked head issue