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Timing chain???


RonD

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It will take a few "drive cycles" for computer to learn new TPS voltages.
1 Drive cycle = heat up to operating temp, 190degF, then a cool down below 110degF
And make sure new TPS voltage is below 1volt, throttle closed, and 4.5volt or higher at WOT
TPS voltage is adjustable, the closed throttle voltage is very important

But not the problem.

DPFE sensor is used by the computer to control the EGR valve, since it is part of an Emissions system it is monitored closely, so instant CEL and codes if there is a problem.
You can remove the vacuum hose from the EGR valve and plug the hose with a screw or bolt, then drive the truck to see if it makes a difference.

EGR(exhaust gas recirculation) is only used after engine warms up, and then only when engine is under load, accelerating, cruising above 40mph, pulling a load or going uphill.
EGR cools down the cylinders as they heat up when under a load, when cylinders get hotter the combustion produces higher levels of NOx, adding exhaust gases slows this heating up so lowers NOx levels.
It also helps prevent pinging/knocking, pre-detonation, which is caused by gasoline self igniting in a hot cylinder before spark plug can ignite it.

If computer was opening EGR valve when you shifted into gear engine would stall, but that wouldn't be a DPFE sensor issue, DFPE sensor tells computer when EGR valve is open and how much it is open by a pressure difference in exhaust manifold.
It doesn't tell computer when to open EGR.

But block off EGR valve vacuum hose to test if EGR is opening when it shouldn't.


Would not start still means starter motor is cranking engine OK, but engine didn't fire up, right?

The charging of the battery makes me think there maybe something else at play here.

What is the RPM of the engine at idle, cold and warmed up?
Should be 1,100rpm cold
750rpm warmed up


Fuel injection can't use a Choke Plate like a carb did, no Jets to sucks extra fuel from.
So fuel injection computer must run the engine in Choke Mode while engine is cold, it detects a cold engine using the ECT(engine coolant temp) sensor.
ECT sensor is only used by the computer, Dash temp gauge uses a temp sender, looks similar but not interchangeable.

When you turn on the key the computer boots up, opens IAC Valve all the way and looks at ECT temp, first things it does.
If ECT shows below 140degF it will add more fuel to start engine, Choke Mode, the colder the temp the more fuel it adds for starting.
Liquid gas won't ignite from a spark(yes, movies are wrong, lol), only gas vapor will ignite with a spark, this is the reason for a Choke plate or Mode to start a cold engine.
You need about 30% vapor to start the engine, the colder the engine the less the gas will vaporize, say at 50degF gas is 10% vapor when pulled from jets or sprayed from an injector, so you need to add 3 times more gas to get to that 30% vapor level to start the engine.
As soon as engine starts cylinders get hot and gas vaporized better as it is pulled into hot cylinders.
The air pre-heater, cover around exhaust manifold, is used to help vaporized more of the fuel during warm up, so engine warms up faster, it doesn't help in starting engine, it aids in engine warm up after starting, it also would not cause stalling.

ECT sensor can be test with volt meter and pin.
ECT sensor will have TWO wires, Sender only has ONE
One of the wires will have 5volts(like TPS) when key is on, the other wire will have lower voltage related to the temp of the sensor.
Voltages are here: http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/20/25/6d/medium/0996b43f8020256d.gif

These will not be exact, but should be close.
Now if your ECT sensor was broken and showing low voltage(under 1 volt, warmed up engine) all the time, then computer would think you are just restarting warmed up engine all the time and wouldn't run engine at a high idle, wouldn't add extra fuel(choke) and engine would stall when put into gear because it doesn't have enough vapor to stay running
 
Last edited:


Ranger Rod

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Ontario Canada
Vehicle Year
1995
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Ford
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3.0 vulcan
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Automatic
It will take a few "drive cycles" for computer to learn new TPS voltages.
1 Drive cycle = heat up to operating temp, 190degF, then a cool down below 110degF
And make sure new TPS voltage is below 1volt, throttle closed, and 4.5volt or higher at WOT
TPS voltage is adjustable, the closed throttle voltage is very important

But not the problem.

DPFE sensor is used by the computer to control the EGR valve, since it is part of an Emissions system it is monitored closely, so instant CEL and codes if there is a problem.
You can remove the vacuum hose from the EGR valve and plug the hose with a screw or bolt, then drive the truck to see if it makes a difference.

EGR(exhaust gas recirculation) is only used after engine warms up, and then only when engine is under load, accelerating, cruising above 40mph, pulling a load or going uphill.
EGR cools down the cylinders as they heat up when under a load, when cylinders get hotter the combustion produces higher levels of NOx, adding exhaust gases slows this heating up so lowers NOx levels.
It also helps prevent pinging/knocking, pre-detonation, which is caused by gasoline self igniting in a hot cylinder before spark plug can ignite it.

If computer was opening EGR valve when you shifted into gear engine would stall, but that wouldn't be a DPFE sensor issue, DFPE sensor tells computer when EGR valve is open and how much it is open by a pressure difference in exhaust manifold.
It doesn't tell computer when to open EGR.

But block off EGR valve vacuum hose to test if EGR is opening when it shouldn't.


Would not start still means starter motor is cranking engine OK, but engine didn't fire up, right?

The charging of the battery makes me think there maybe something else at play here.

What is the RPM of the engine at idle, cold and warmed up?
Should be 1,100rpm cold
750rpm warmed up


Fuel injection can't use a Choke Plate like a carb did, no Jets to sucks extra fuel from.
So fuel injection computer must run the engine in Choke Mode while engine is cold, it detects a cold engine using the ECT(engine coolant temp) sensor.
ECT sensor is only used by the computer, Dash temp gauge uses a temp sender, looks similar but not interchangeable.

When you turn on the key the computer boots up, opens IAC Valve all the way and looks at ECT temp, first things it does.
If ECT shows below 140degF it will add more fuel to start engine, Choke Mode, the colder the temp the more fuel it adds for starting.
Liquid gas won't ignite from a spark(yes, movies are wrong, lol), only gas vapor will ignite with a spark, this is the reason for a Choke plate or Mode to start a cold engine.
You need about 30% vapor to start the engine, the colder the engine the less the gas will vaporize, say at 50degF gas is 10% vapor when pulled from jets or sprayed from an injector, so you need to add 3 times more gas to get to that 30% vapor level to start the engine.
As soon as engine starts cylinders get hot and gas vaporized better as it is pulled into hot cylinders.
The air pre-heater, cover around exhaust manifold, is used to help vaporized more of the fuel during warm up, so engine warms up faster, it doesn't help in starting engine, it aids in engine warm up after starting, it also would not cause stalling.

ECT sensor can be test with volt meter and pin.
ECT sensor will have TWO wires, Sender only has ONE
One of the wires will have 5volts(like TPS) when key is on, the other wire will have lower voltage related to the temp of the sensor.
Voltages are here: http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0996b43f/80/20/25/6d/medium/0996b43f8020256d.gif

These will not be exact, but should be close.
Now if your ECT sensor was broken and showing low voltage(under 1 volt, warmed up engine) all the time, then computer would think you are just restarting warmed up engine all the time and wouldn't run engine at a high idle, wouldn't add extra fuel(choke) and engine would stall when put into gear because it doesn't have enough vapor to stay running
Can't get it up to operating temperature to set TPS / voltages with computer because of main failure. The volt meter gives good reading closed and wot.

Not getting CEL although recently (last few months) ABS & Brake lights came on, I ignored this as an old school fellow whom prefers pumping breaks as required if and when desired any way. Should I get this stuff sorted I will turn to that then.

Although I cannot drive due to the stall factor when putting in gear, I did plug the egr hose to see if this was a factor, again a stall after putting it in gear, returning to no start with the slightly warm engine.

To confirm your query, yes there is always starter crank and spark at the plug and no ignition even with ether when the motor slightly warm, she will only start and run from cold. After a stall and then return to fruitless cranking, fuel can be smelled and too ignites where the gasket just blew out between the manifold and Y pipe during this problem.

When making reference to charging battery, this is only because of having the key on so long during testing volts and having done allot of cranking over. Battery probably had lots of juice left but I did not wish to create another variable which is usually my luck.

Cold start rpm's are close to 1500 per onboard tach and near 1000 after 10 seconds or so with egr vacuum line plugged.

The repair guide link given for temps does not open for me but thanks the same. Readings were not good so will replace ECT.

_____________________________________________________________

Replaced ETC today and warmed up to operating temp. Put in gear and DID NOT stall. Turned off and RESTARTED without incident. As the stay at home dad am I on duty with kids and will not be able to ROAD TEST until tomorrow but I remain optimistic.

In anticipation that all will go well I shall take this moment to thank you for the education. I do miss working on my 69 340 Dart in all it’s simplicity, but I can now say allot of the mystery of newer animals has been removed through this experience.
 

RonD

Official TRS AI
TRS Technical Advisor
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
25,363
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Points
113
Location
canada
Vehicle Year
1994
Make / Model
Ford
Transmission
Manual
Hopefully the new ECT will help, but the higher idle at cold start would mean old one was working.

Older systems were not much simpler, what they were was high maintenance, so you HAD TO adjust them all the time, and shear repetition just made us more comfortable working on them.

Electronic ignition and fuel injection rarely have problems, but when they do it is all new ground for most of us :)
Like the first time you set points or timed spark, or adjusted carb or rebuilt it, it took a bit to learn it, it was not simple to fix, the first time, lol.

Sweet, 340 Dart, light fast engine
 

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