460, 7.3 n/a IDI,or chevy 6.0L

I am looking for a tow rig and want to support my local economy and have several choices.

Candidate number 1 (possibly my favorite)

1990 F350 dually crew cab 2wd. 460, E4od. engine just replaced, has 160 miles on it, has a new transmission that went in 10,000 miles ago, has a banks transcommand. it is a 1 owner and is at the Ford Dealership that sold it new and has serviced it since it was new, they have all records even oil changes. I has 132,XXX miles on it. the new engine and trans both done at same dealership.

$5500 out the door. It is Maroon, needs paint, no rust, has the red interior (I actually almost threw up) and some kind of cowboy's cadillac package. The truck is a cream puff, it was used to haul a slide in camper and flat tow a Suzuki Samauri for 19 years, it was traded in for a 2008 Powerstroke F250.

Candidate number 2

1992 F250 4wd super cab with a n/a 7.3L IDI and 4spd auto, and 24K sliding 5th wheel hitch. gray interior, all rusted out (has holes in the body) it is beat to death, 201,XXX miles but runs really good and shifts strong, no history but I will get a carfax.

$4000, could possibally get it for $3000.

Candidate number 3

2003 Chevy 2500HD 2wd super cab with the suicide doors. 6.0L and 4spd auto with tow/haul mode. it is decent and not beat. 140,XXX miles used as a landscaping truck. has a few dents and scratches but nothing big and no rot. It was also sold new by this dealership and serviced by them.

$5000 plus tax and title.




The guy with the 92 F250 drive it semi regular for the last year, says it gets 12 - 15 mpg and 11 when towing his 3 car wedge.

I know the 460 will get 8 - 10, but it will also get 8 - 10 towing 14,000 pounds.

the chevy I expect will get 15 - 18 on the hwy but I doubt it will handle more than about 10,000 pounds and I expect it will only get 8 - 10 towing that much. but the price is right if I can get over the fact that it is a busted ass chevy...... and If I could get over the fact that GM took bail out money.


I think I like the F350 the best, it is also the only 1 ton and crew cab (important because of 3 kids and now a dog) and it was the most powerful (I had forgotten how fast a 460 was in something smaller than a motorhome).

not really concerned with daily driving mileage because I only commute 50 miles a week, I am concerned with towing ability and general reliability.

I've driven a 1990 F-350 crewcab with a 460 and 5-speed and let me tell you it is a beast. It goes up a hill in overdrive. But the only bad thing I have to say about them is they will get stuck on level ground in grass while trying to haul a boat. I've seen it happen. Also the older they get the more oil it eats. Other than that keep it on the pavement and your set.

If it has electric locks they may go out on you.The back seat has a ton of space back there and is pretty comfortable.

it does and they have, the lock actuator on the pass side front door does not work, but the switch does (it locks the other 3 doors)

I'd get the f350. It will tow by far the best. I'm not just talking about power either, it has the biggest brakes, the dual wheels will elliminate all sway with a load, and the crew cab will help it ride smooth unlike most other dual wheeled trucks. My dad had a 89 2wd 460, c6, crewcab dually for 12 years, towed with it every week and it did great. The truck had a posi rear and if you had about 1/2 ton in the bed it would go anywhere. The f250 you probally won't be happy with cause, it's got crappy front suspension that wears tires like crazy, and that older 7.3 is a dog. That chevy also would probally be under powered.

yeah I am thinking the chevy would be under powered too. I plan on towing 6000 pounds of 34' travel trailer or 5th wheel and 5880 pounds of LandCruiser on a 2000 pound trailer (if I get a 5th wheel, or 2000 pounds of goosekneck if I get a travel trailer) so that brings us to roughly 14,000 pounds.

The only problem I see is the E40D. They're fine in a 5.0L F150 but being behind a 460 with 15,000 lbs in tow tends to wear 'em out kinda quick. But it shouldn't be any worse than the chebby.

The E4OD is basically a C6 w/O/D.

It'll be fine.


That 460 will be alot better empty then the 7.3L, and tow just as good.

later,
Dustin

He was towing a 3-car wedge with a 170hp non-turbo? Bleah... He probably got tickets for going under 45mph on the interstate. I wouldn't own that with a 10-foot pole.

The 460 sounds good.

But the 6.0 Chevy is the best bet. My uncle had a 4x4 GMC about that year--2500HD. I thought it was a 454. 300hp, 360ft#--it's stronger than the 460 and 13 years newer. The crewcab is nice though. The Chevy 2wd suspension is better in my opinion. The Chevy has a better tranny too.

rusty ol ranger said:

The E4OD is basically a C6 w/O/D.

It'll be fine.


That 460 will be alot better empty then the 7.3L, and tow just as good.

later,
Dustin

Click to expand...

That's true, but it lost a lot of strength when it got the O/D. Based on experience with numerous E4OD equipped trucks and a few C6 equipped trucks, the C6's strength and longetivity is a whole class above the E4OD.

Will said:

He was towing a 3-car wedge with a 170hp non-turbo? Bleah... He probably got tickets for going under 45mph on the interstate. I wouldn't own that with a 10-foot pole.

The 460 sounds good.

But the 6.0 Chevy is the best bet. My uncle had a 4x4 GMC about that year--2500HD. I thought it was a 454. 300hp, 360ft#--it's stronger than the 460 and 13 years newer. The crewcab is nice though. The Chevy 2wd suspension is better in my opinion. The Chevy has a better tranny too.

Click to expand...

Have you not heard all the bad stories about late model chevy trannies? They've been having a lot of significant quality issues lately. I'd stay away.

And I want to see your famous torque curves proving that the 6.0L is stronger than a 460. From my memory, the EFI 460 made more than 360 ft-lbs and I'm sure it made it a lot lower in the RPM band than the suped-up smallblock known as the 6.0L chevy.

The '90 460 is rated at 230hp@3600rpm and 390ft#@2200rpm.
The '03 6.0 is rated at 300hp@4400rpm and 360ft#@4000rpm.

I made this picture by scaling the two dyno graphs linked below and putting the 6.0 curve on the 460 chart. The 460 chart is from Gear Vendors and I don't know if they just guessed when they drew it or not. It's close enough to what it would look like. Neither of these is the right year, but close enough. So, yeah, the 460 is better for towing unless you feel like keeping your 6.0 over 3500rpm all the time. But that horsepower is real, just not practical. But I still would prefer the 6.0 because of the age of the truck and because the 6.0 will handle a lot of trailer too. Maybe if I were doing a lot of towing with 6,000#+ I would go with the 460.



460 Graph
6.0 Graph

NOTHING replaces cubic inches when it comes to towing. Most tractor trailers don't have engines less than 500 ci and some go over 8-900 ci. If smaller motor is working harder to tow something, it's just like a time bomb with a fuse. A very short fuse. An engine with more cubes has a longer fuse until they blow.

Rico said:

NOTHING replaces cubic inches when it comes to towing. Most tractor trailers don't have engines less than 500 ci and some go over 8-900 ci. If smaller motor is working harder to tow something, it's just like a time bomb with a fuse. A very short fuse. An engine with more cubes has a longer fuse until they blow.

Click to expand...

It's more or less true with naturally aspirated motors. But in this case I didn't expect the 460 to hold on as long after the torque peak. The 6.0 has nearly the same maximum torque--which is an item completely independent of RPM-it's only about how much air can be drawn in in a single intake cycle. The 6.0 can ingest the same volume of air in one intake stroke as the 460 can. The difference is that the 6.0 does its best intake cycle at a higher rpm because the engine is using the energy in the moving air to force air into the opening valve. The Ford 5.4 and 6.8 are going to show a little better low rpm--with the 5.4 coming closer to the 460 in the lower rpms and the 6.8 exceeding the 460s low rpm ability. Any of these motors makes hugely more horsepower than a 460 though, and that was my original point.

But towing, to me, is about maintaining your cruise rpm without having to downshift. The 460 is clearly better than the 6.0 in the 2,000-2,500rpm range where I drive. If they were going to race the 6.0 could knock it down a gear and walk away from the 460. But this is about maintaining speed without downshifting. The problem with downshifting is that there is often nowhere to go with only 4 gears. You are forced to spin the engine well above it's ideal range when you have to downshift which kills your fuel economy. When I was towing with a 5.7EFI I was constantly turning off the overdrive and letting it spin on hills. I would get 8-mpg. When I switched to a 6.2 with a turbo I no longer downshifted and my mileage went up to 16 with the same 6,000# trailer, same truck and gears. And I could get there faster because I wasn't sitting there buzzing in the slow lane. That's all I mean. Right now i wouldn't trade my 6.2 for a 6.0 because of that. The 6.0 would obviously destroy the 6.2 turbo in a race, but at 2,000rpm the 6.0 is only capable of 330ft# and the 6.2 turbo is capable of 450ft# on the stock pump so someone is going to be looking for a gear. This is the whole reason I like diesels and can't stand them without turbos.

Anyway, the 6.0 is used in motorhome chassis, walk-in vans (UPS trucks). It's certainly good enough to pull a trailer with a pickup and is not a time-bomb. It's a commercially rated motor. I still would prefer, between these two trucks, the 13-year newer truck that can clearly get the job done.

The 6.0 is a good engine, but when they get higher on the miles than about 60,000-75,000 they start to make lifter noise. I also don't like their don't know about their transmissions, GM uses so little aluminum in their castings for transfer cases the FLUID actually made a pin hole in my father's. Hopefully the transmissions don't have that same problem, but who knows.

If it were to have an Allison it'd be a different story, there's one in the tow truck I drive and it's the most solid thing on the whole truck.

I had no problem coaxing 13-14 mpg out of a 76 F250 with the old 460 and it had a carb and an auto. Never towed with it though, for some reason.

I bought the crew cab. I pick it up this week end. the cab on the chevy is just too small and Ford came down to $4000 on the crew cab, the chevy dealer wouldn't budge an inch on their price. I plan on a Banks Trans Command and a gear vendors gear splitter, Banks power pack, and maybe a Vortec S1, you know ...... over time.