oil pressure?

ericbphoto · May 24, 2016

Had something interesting happen yesterday. Did some 'wheeling with a friend. Towards the end, (1/4 mile from trailhead) I went up a pretty steep hill. It was about the limit of what the truck can do presently - 75% bald street tires and open diff's. After the steep part, but before things really leveled out, I noticed a noise - faint squeaking and possibly light ticking.

While listening, I looked at gauge cluster and saw oil pressure at 0. So I stopped. At idle, same symptoms. I turned off the engine and checked dipstick - good level. Truck was level at this point. Restarted engine and pressure indication came back. No ticking. Still slight squeaking noise. I think the squeaking may come from A/C compressor pulley bearing. Compressor already unplugged because it locked up a while back.

I understand this truck has "dummy gauge", explaining "all or nothing" reading.

Is it common for this engine to lose oil pressure on steep hills?
Is oil pump pickup at front of engine?
Are there known issues with oil return path at steep angles?
Where is the pressure sensor/sending unit?

I feel like I should probably get a real pressure sensor and gauge to install. I can also check for loose wiring connections. Anything else I should do or check?

Otherwise, I was very pleased with the trucks performance yesterday. This was the first serious wheeling I have done with it and it impressed me on hills, loose gravel/ rocks, large rocks, mud, etc. I am sorry I screwed up with the Go Pro and don't have the videos I thought I shot. My buddy's Tracker was even more impressive but he has good Mud tires and a rear locker.

Tedybear · May 24, 2016

If you're going to subject the truck to that? I'd tie on a real gauge along with the factory 'dummy' gauge. As for the oil pickup? Just look at the pan. The lowest part is where the sump pick up will be.

One of the keys to hard/heavy use is to ensure the oil flows back into that pan smooth and quick. It sounds like there might be some restrictions with the oil return passages that might need to be tended to. Might just be something as simple as restricted oil returns in the cylinder head/valve cover area that need to be cleaned out.

Of course this is all arm chair guesswork on my part.

S-

ericbphoto · May 25, 2016

I am planning on pulling the valve covers in the next week or so to check for obstructions, sludge, etc. I'll get a pressure guage on order and install that, too.

Where is the best place to put the sensor? Tee in where the OEM sender is?

Also, If I find lots of sludge and gunk, I guess I should try to clean out the oil pan. I haven't studied that yet. Can it be removed with engine in the truck?

Rearanger · May 26, 2016

ericbphoto said:
Where is the best place to put the sensor? Tee in where the OEM sender is?

Yes to tee. Use Permatex High Performance Thread Sealant. I used a single gauge pod window pillar mount.

http://www.gaugepods.com/

RonD · May 26, 2016

Oil pressure sender/switch won't be effected by angles.
It is on the main oil passage and registers Back Pressure, the oil the engine can't use at that moment.

If the oil pump pickup screen, in the bottom of oil pan, gets even slightly uncovered, air gets in and pump loses suction.
With no incoming oil from the pump the bearings quickly use up the Back Pressure and it drops to under 5psi and oil gauge goes to 0.
You get lifter/valve train noise at around 3psi.

ericbphoto · May 30, 2016

RonD,

What you said in your second paragraph is exactly what I believe happened. However, that is also what caused the pressure sender/switch to be affected. It didn't see any back-pressure.

I am expecting to find obstructions to rear oil drain passages up in the valve train area, which would have held oil up there on the steep hill, thereby reducing sump level and allowing the pump to suck air. Once I got to level ground, stopped the engine and everything had time to drain through other passages, the problem disappeared. At least all of that makes sense in MY head. I hope to find out for sure later this week.

ericbphoto · Jun 3, 2016

I did the job yesterday. Below are pictures of passenger side valve train and valve cover. It was cruddy but not as bad as I expected - Yay. I don't think the drain passages in the heads were obstructed. I thought the driver side rear one was because there seemed to be some oil pooled up at that point. But then I found out it is drilled horizontally instead of vertically. I poked some stiff wire through all the drains and then blew them out with compressed air. Got all the trash cleaned out of the area and cleaned the valve covers. Then did the flush, followed by an oil change. Driver side was slightly dirtier than passenger side.

I didn't get the new oil pressure sensor and gauge installed yet. That isn't so easy to reach. I think if I jack up the front of the truck, so I can move around easier underneath, it will be easier to do that project. At least I can actually SEE the sensor location from underneath.

Tedybear · Jun 3, 2016

Glad that it wasn't to badly plugged up. Any reduction of diameter of the drain holes can cause issues, so the cleaner stuff is? The happier it will be.

And yeah, the oil pressure senders can be a pi**er at times to work with. That dummy gauge that Ford uses is an insult IMO. To only trigger at about 7psi? Here's my issue with that:

If your engine is that tired, that it has great oil pressure when cold. But when you get it at temp it makes barely enough to keep that from triggering? That is something the driver/owner should be aware of. All this because some drivers couldn't understand why the oil pressure would drop when the engine was 'hot' and they got all in a panic. Not sure if that's just FORD owners, as Dodge and GM with gauges (to my understanding) are actual GAUGES and not dummy gauges.

There ends my rant.

S-

ericbphoto · Jun 13, 2016

I got the new pressure sensor installed and a oil pressure gauge on my dash yesterday. Still need to make a bracket to mount the sensor. I ran a hose from the original location on the block so I could put the sensor where it is serviceable. The original switch will be at the new location also, so the original dummy gauge will work when I'm finished. Also installed water temp gauge but did not do final wire connection on that yet. Just ran out of time.

Oil pressure seems to run around 20-25psi at idle and up towards 60-75psi at higher rpms. Have not driven much since installing the gauges.

I'll add a photo later when I get it uploaded.

Rearanger · Jun 13, 2016

ericbphoto said:
Oil pressure seems to run around 20-25psi at idle and up towards 60-75psi at higher rpms.

Hot engine or cold?

ericbphoto · Jun 13, 2016

The "60-75psi at higher rpms" was still "cold engine" - just started it after working on it all afternoon, That is also true for the idling pressure shown in the photo.

After warming up, idle pressure was down around 20-25psi. I didn't get it to high rpms during hot engine conditions yet. I did drive it some, but not at highway speeds.

Rearanger · Jun 13, 2016

ericbphoto said:
After warming up, idle pressure was down around 20-25psi.

Can't say for sure that's not what you're reading, but I've never had that kind of pressure at hot idle. Usually 10psi is good.

ericbphoto · Jun 14, 2016

I'll keep an eye on it. Now that I can see actual pressure, I need to get familiar with it's normal readings so I can tell when something is wrong.

ericbphoto · Jun 21, 2016

I drove the truck a good bit more over the past couple days. Oil pressure seems to be about right. I guess I didn't really have the engine warmed up the other day. Now, when fully warmed up, idle pressure is down around 10-15psi. Running 40-50psi on the highway around 2500rpm? I'm pretty satisfied with it.

The new temperature gauge seems to be reading high. I need to get a IR gun and see if I'm getting accurate readings. Warmed up engine, the temp seems to be cycling between 210 and 230/240 degrees. That seems too high to me. I assume the thermostat is OEM, but there is no guarantee. At least one radiator hose has a NAPA sticker on it. Once I can verify what the coolant temperature really is, I'll try to figure out what to do next. Probably a new thermostat and flush the coolant system. I have read some threads about fan clutches going bad, too. Need to figure out how to check that.

Is a 180deg thermostat ok? Why is the OEM set so high? (192? 196? just going by what I see on the auto part store websites)

Rearanger · Jun 21, 2016

ericbphoto said:
Probably a new thermostat and flush the coolant system.

I have found thermostats vary greatly from stamped temp to actual operating.

Also the location of the sender could affect temp reading. I have a digital temp gauge and a scan gauge where I can read what the ECT reads. There is a 5* difference as the ECT reads higher.

Is a 180deg thermostat ok? Why is the OEM set so high? (192? 196? just going by what I see on the auto part store websites)

Go with OEM spec'd and get better operation and gas mileage. I have seen no difference in Stant brand and OEM (which Stant may make) quality.

oil pressure?

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