P2195, p2197 RUNS ROUGH

modelageek · Jul 1, 2015

went around a wet corner and revved it a little spinning the tires. the engine died. I was able to start it and get it home. runs rough. Pulled those 2 codes. fuel pressure is 65 psi. I did a little searching says it could be intake gaskets or a big vacuum leak. all thoughst encouraged. TIA its for the 2004

RonD · Jul 1, 2015

Engine cold, pull connectors on both upstream O2 sensors, make sure insides are clean and dry, the water and spinning tires thing is why.

Yes, 2195 and 2197 means both upstream O2 sensors are seeing too much oxygen in the exhaust on both banks of the engine, or are reporting too much oxygen.

To have both O2 sensors fail at the same time and in the same way is a long shot so I doubt a sensor problem.
That leaves wiring to sensors, computer or an actual fuel mix problem.

So check the wiring, also the O2 sensor heater fuse(s)

We will assume computer connector didn't get wet but......................long shot but not no shot

An actual lean air fuel mix will ping/knock from pre-ignition, 4.0l SOHC has a knock sensor, so would prevent that but engine power would drop quite a bit, not just rough idle.

MAF sensor tell computer the air volume so it can set 14:1/air:fuel mix on the fly, this needs to be clean and water free.

After engine is warmed up idle should 700-750rpms on automatic in Park
Unplug the IAC Valve, idle should drop to 500rpms or engine may even stall, either is good it means no vacuum leak.
If idle is higher than 750 even with IAC unplugged then there is a leak.

modelageek · Jul 2, 2015

RonD said:
Engine cold, pull connectors on both upstream O2 sensors, make sure insides are clean and dry, the water and spinning tires thing is why.

Yes, 2195 and 2197 means both upstream O2 sensors are seeing too much oxygen in the exhaust on both banks of the engine, or are reporting too much oxygen.

To have both O2 sensors fail at the same time and in the same way is a long shot so I doubt a sensor problem.
That leaves wiring to sensors, computer or an actual fuel mix problem.

So check the wiring, also the O2 sensor heater fuse(s)

We will assume computer connector didn't get wet but......................long shot but not no shot

An actual lean air fuel mix will ping/knock from pre-ignition, 4.0l SOHC has a knock sensor, so would prevent that but engine power would drop quite a bit, not just rough idle.

MAF sensor tell computer the air volume so it can set 14:1/air:fuel mix on the fly, this needs to be clean and water free.

After engine is warmed up idle should 700-750rpms on automatic in Park
Unplug the IAC Valve, idle should drop to 500rpms or engine may even stall, either is good it means no vacuum leak.
If idle is higher than 750 even with IAC unplugged then there is a leak.

thanks Ron. I dont think water is an issue. it was barely raining and no puddles. the road was wet and it helped the tires spin.
The truck was running very rough and stalling to the point where I could not drive it. This morning I looked around for a vacuum leak. I could not see anything suspect. I started the truck. It did not want to stay running at all. I then disconnected the MAF and it started up and stays running. it runs almost like normal at idle. when driving it runs OK but the transmission shifts rough.I drove it until the engine was warmed up. I also removed the MAF and cleaned it, no change. I checked the 15 amp HEGO fuse and that was fine. I think I might throw a MAF at it? any thoughts? I did get a P0113 and a P0102 after disconnected the MAF. before that I just had the other 2 codes. Thanks

RonD · Jul 2, 2015

You can check voltages of MAF: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/CleanMAF.shtml
If you have a scanner you can watch MAF voltage, live.

Disconnecting MAF puts computer in Open Loop and "Limp Home mode", so computer ignores most sensors and just runs the engine from factory air/fuel tables in memory.

IAT(air temp) sensor is in the MAF housing so when you unplug the 6 wire MAF connector you would get both codes.

Just seems odd to me, and to you I am sure, that it happened so suddenly, MAF sensors tend to fail over time, i.e. a little bucking or stalling out, but it could happen

modelageek · Jul 6, 2015

RonD said:
You can check voltages of MAF: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/CleanMAF.shtml
If you have a scanner you can watch MAF voltage, live.

Disconnecting MAF puts computer in Open Loop and "Limp Home mode", so computer ignores most sensors and just runs the engine from factory air/fuel tables in memory.

IAT(air temp) sensor is in the MAF housing so when you unplug the 6 wire MAF connector you would get both codes.

Just seems odd to me, and to you I am sure, that it happened so suddenly, MAF sensors tend to fail over time, i.e. a little bucking or stalling out, but it could happen

Just got back form 4th weekend. I hooked up my Torque to the truck and the MAF and temp sensors seem fine. I checked the ECT and the AIT when the enigine was cold. Both were around 75 degrees. Ron I am doubting it is the MAF also. It is showing up today from RA so I will throw it on and report back. I used a propane torch as well as some carb cleaner to search for a vacuum leak. I could not find anything. I also did a visual check for collapsed hoses while it was running and did not find anything. I also have a pending p0171, p0174, P0300, p0316 as well as the original codes. I am a little stumped. I would think that if i had a vacuum leak, a clogged CAT or exhaust that it would not run better with the MAF disconnected. Also I do have about a 1" hole in the muffler. the hole has been there for a while. not sure if that would have an effect on it.

I connected tha MAF and ran the truck, these are the readings I got.

RonD · Jul 6, 2015

Codes 171 and 174 are pretty much the same as 2195 and 2197, too much oxygen in exhaust
300 and 316 are random misfires most likely caused by Lean fuel mix before computer can correct it.

See if your Torque app has g/s(grams per second) reading for MAF sensor, CFM isn't as precise.
Then raise RPMs up steadily, at idle(700rpm) you should see about 4g/s then a steady increase as you increase RPMs, if you see sudden jumps or drops in g/s then you found at least 1 problem, the MAF.

After engine is warmed up, unplug the IAC valve's wires, IAC valve will close and idle should drop to 500rpm or engine may even stall, either is good, it means no vacuum leak from engine side of throttle plate.
If idle stays high, 700 and up then you do have a vacuum leak(or someone has messed with throttle plate or linkage.

Hole in muffler won't effect computers short term fuel trim, but can effect long term fuel trim if hole is before the back O2 sensor, most likely it isn't and the effect would be small in any case, nothing like you currently describe.

modelageek · Jul 7, 2015

RonD said:
Codes 171 and 174 are pretty much the same as 2195 and 2197, too much oxygen in exhaust
300 and 316 are random misfires most likely caused by Lean fuel mix before computer can correct it.

See if your Torque app has g/s(grams per second) reading for MAF sensor, CFM isn't as precise.
Then raise RPMs up steadily, at idle(700rpm) you should see about 4g/s then a steady increase as you increase RPMs, if you see sudden jumps or drops in g/s then you found at least 1 problem, the MAF.

After engine is warmed up, unplug the IAC valve's wires, IAC valve will close and idle should drop to 500rpm or engine may even stall, either is good, it means no vacuum leak from engine side of throttle plate.
If idle stays high, 700 and up then you do have a vacuum leak(or someone has messed with throttle plate or linkage.

Hole in muffler won't effect computers short term fuel trim, but can effect long term fuel trim if hole is before the back O2 sensor, most likely it isn't and the effect would be small in any case, nothing like you currently describe.

SOLVED: Thanks Ron! it appears that the new MAF solved the issue. I put my Torque app on the truck yesterday and the MAF was reading 2.6 g/s at 720 rpm. the fuel trims were 20-50. Today with the new MAF the readings are 4.7 g/s at 700 rpm. the fuel trims are hovering around 0. Thanks again.

On a side note I still love rockauto but Fedex has taken a nosedive over the last few years. Rockauto will not let you choose between fedex and UPS.

modelageek · Jul 7, 2015

Seems to be running much better overall. I had noticed a pinging that was getting a little worse. My guess is the MAF was slowly going bad then just blew! FYI never got a code for it! Thanks again.

RonD · Jul 7, 2015

Good work

Thanks for updating and posting the fix.

Yes, it would seem that Ford could have added a sanity check for MAF sensor ranges since computer software is specific to the engine size.
I.e. a 4.0l engine would pull in X.X g/s at XXX RPMs, if out of range set MAF code

The Lean code was set, of course, because of this incorrect MAF data but a sanity range MAF code would make diagnosis easier.
MAF does have a gross range code, but you hadn't reached that limit.

modelageek · Jul 7, 2015

RonD said:
Good work

Thanks for updating and posting the fix.

Yes, it would seem that Ford could have added a sanity check for MAF sensor ranges since computer software is specific to the engine size.
I.e. a 4.0l engine would pull in X.X g/s at XXX RPMs, if out of range set MAF code

The Lean code was set, of course, because of this incorrect MAF data but a sanity range MAF code would make diagnosis easier.
MAF does have a gross range code, but you hadn't reached that limit.

Good ideas, maybe Ford is listining.

FYI: for future members who find thus while searching I bought the Hitachi MAF from rockauto for $50.

modelageek · Jul 9, 2015

RonD said:
Good work

Thanks for updating and posting the fix.

Yes, it would seem that Ford could have added a sanity check for MAF sensor ranges since computer software is specific to the engine size.
I.e. a 4.0l engine would pull in X.X g/s at XXX RPMs, if out of range set MAF code

The Lean code was set, of course, because of this incorrect MAF data but a sanity range MAF code would make diagnosis easier.
MAF does have a gross range code, but you hadn't reached that limit.

Ron any thoughts on sparkplugs? The engine in the truck is from a 2009 Ranger. I made a mistake and did not give the mechanic that installed it new plugs to install( I know very very dumb) :bawling:

. I just got a misfire on #4 and pulled the plug . it appears pretty worn. The plug in there was a MC AGSF24N. All the store had was an autolite APP 5144, I threw that in. I want to get them from rockauto, plugs and wires. Rockauto has nickel plugs and these AUTOLITE Part # XP5143 Iridiums. Any thoughts?

RonD · Jul 9, 2015

The 4.0l's tend to wear out most brands of spark plugs, Motorcraft or Autolite double platinum will last you the longest.

Ford uses Waste Spark system, this means two things that wear out spark plugs faster.
Each spark plug sparks on every 1 revolution of the crankshaft, regular spark uses once every 2 revolutions of the crank shaft, so with waste spark a plug is used twice as much, literally.
And the spark plugs are wired in series, 1 coil for 2 spark plugs, so one plug sparks from center to tip, the other from tip to center(reversed).
These are wired as bank 1(passenger side) and bank 2(drivers side) on the coil.
When you pull out the old spark plugs look at the tips and the centers, one bank will have worn tips, the other worn centers.
You can regap partially worn plugs and reinstall in the opposite bank to get a little extra mileage from them.

But this is why the double platinum, tip and center both need the coating to last longer, single platinum will last as long but only on one bank, lol.

modelageek · Jul 10, 2015

RonD said:
The 4.0l's tend to wear out most brands of spark plugs, Motorcraft or Autolite double platinum will last you the longest.

Ford uses Waste Spark system, this means two things that wear out spark plugs faster.
Each spark plug sparks on every 1 revolution of the crankshaft, regular spark uses once every 2 revolutions of the crank shaft, so with waste spark a plug is used twice as much, literally.
And the spark plugs are wired in series, 1 coil for 2 spark plugs, so one plug sparks from center to tip, the other from tip to center(reversed).
These are wired as bank 1(passenger side) and bank 2(drivers side) on the coil.
When you pull out the old spark plugs look at the tips and the centers, one bank will have worn tips, the other worn centers.
You can regap partially worn plugs and reinstall in the opposite bank to get a little extra mileage from them.

But this is why the double platinum, tip and center both need the coating to last longer, single platinum will last as long but only on one bank, lol.

So the DP'S are better then the fine wire Iridiums? Thanks again Ron!

modelageek · Jul 10, 2015

RonD said:
The 4.0l's tend to wear out most brands of spark plugs, Motorcraft or Autolite double platinum will last you the longest.

Ford uses Waste Spark system, this means two things that wear out spark plugs faster.
Each spark plug sparks on every 1 revolution of the crankshaft, regular spark uses once every 2 revolutions of the crank shaft, so with waste spark a plug is used twice as much, literally.
And the spark plugs are wired in series, 1 coil for 2 spark plugs, so one plug sparks from center to tip, the other from tip to center(reversed).
These are wired as bank 1(passenger side) and bank 2(drivers side) on the coil.
When you pull out the old spark plugs look at the tips and the centers, one bank will have worn tips, the other worn centers.
You can regap partially worn plugs and reinstall in the opposite bank to get a little extra mileage from them.

But this is why the double platinum, tip and center both need the coating to last longer, single platinum will last as long but only on one bank, lol.

This is interesting. I called AZ, O'Reilly's and Autoparts international. No one carrys Autolite or MC DP's for the 2009. They have the Nickel and Iridium. Autoparts international does have a regular platinum Autotlite. I think I might just go with the iridium's from Rockauto for $5 unless I hear some strong opposition? thanks again?

RonD · Jul 10, 2015

Autolite APP5143 is the double platinum version(PP) for the 4.0l SOHC 2006 and up.

If you don't use double platinum then I wouldn't bother with single platinum.

I saw one listing at rock auto for APP5143 listed as closeout $0.77 each 12 left, but I would double check that they are PP, but even if they are not, 77 cents each! shipping will cost more than the 6 spark plugs, lol, and they will last long enough to meet their 77 cent price.

Yes the iridium are fine to use.

The 4.0l SOHC has a couple of hard to get to spark plugs, so the longer they can last the better, which is why the double platinum can be worth the extra cost.

P2195, p2197 RUNS ROUGH

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