Ignition Options

85_Ranger4x4 · Jun 16, 2017

Done dealing with Duraspark, I want something reliable. At this rate I think going to points would be an improvement.

I know about the HEI dizzy, I haven't ruled it out but really would rather not go down that road.

MSD vs Streetfire vs Mallory Hyfire vs Stealth HEI... dunno what is better or worse and if any better options are out there. I don't race the truck or anything I just want a reliable as a hammer ignition.

bf750 · Jun 16, 2017

I,ve had good luck with accel

ATX · Jun 17, 2017

From what I know and heard street fire is a msd unit no markings . We sat up here at the shop and tore msd and street fire down and compared the two for parts to make one good one . Worked out . Was something about the gear though that had to be changed . This was for a sbc though

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

85_Ranger4x4 · Jun 17, 2017

Streetfire and Mallory are all made by MSD.

They say the boxes will work with the stock dizzy... which I am ok with.

84FreakRanger · Jun 18, 2017

The ACCEL system are junk. The best thing for cheap and reliability is get a old 70's points distributor and buy a Pertronix ignitor ignition system. So easy to install and you can install it with or without a MSD box. I race my truck and its my daily driver, you can check out my threads too. There's alot of awesome cool people on here. :headbang:

85_Ranger4x4 · Jun 18, 2017

That is something else I hadn't thought of. I know at work Petronix on old tractors is really touchy on coils, wires and wiring... if anything is wrong your $100+ module dies.

Really leaning towards the stealth HEI right now. Minimum of parts to buy, cheap, everything still looks "right" and I can rebuild it myself if something happens to it.

RonD · Jun 18, 2017

Duraspark distributor is one of the better distributors of that type, and can be used with 4-wire HEI module

Cheap and probably the best system available

You should use a .5ohm coil for best performance but any coil will work

85_Ranger4x4 · Jun 18, 2017

I went 5 years on the E coil that came with the truck and a JY DS box with the 2.8. Right after the V8 swap I changed the radio and the tiny tach wire shorted out on the steel dash and killed both the tach and DS box. In the 5 years since I am lucky to get a year out of the and the last two times they died together.

The last time i had been testing my cruise control circuits (disconnected so everything was dead, key was off) and the dome light ran the battery down. I drove it to work that day and it ran great. I noticed the dome light was getting dim and tried to start it and all it could do was engage the starter drive. Threw it on the charger the next morning and it had no fire. Dunno if the low battery did it or not... it adds insult to injury to have to buy a new coil and module when you also have to buy a new battery.

This last time it was a 15 month old motocraft Duraspark module and a parts store coil (I had a motorcraft coil but I hadn't got it put in)

I have been thinking more on that, if the battery was weak so the alternator was kicking in more if it would have voltage spikes or if something like that would bother. If it is something with the truck a new ignition won't fix it.

RonD · Jun 18, 2017

Running any "car battery" down shortens its life, they are made with thin plates that are close together to discharge high amps quickly and then quickly recharge(with alternator)

Any Slow drain builds up debris on the thin plates and if that debris builds up enough to touch the next plate then you have a shorted cell which self drains the battery.

Overcharging does the same thing but also "boils" off chemicals in the battery, so double whammy.

Deep Cycle batteries are made with thicker plates, they are made to discharge slowly, they can be used to start engines but can have shorter lives because of the high amp draw and then quick recharge, these batteries are made for slow long term drains, i.e. lights and appliance use in boats and RVs.

Bad battery can kill alternator and bad alternator can kill battery, voltage above 15vDC can kill electrics.

If you think you need a new battery or alternator check BOTH because if you replace one it could die sooner than later if the other was the problem.

Just after engine starts battery voltage should read between 14 and 15 volts, thats ReCharge voltage
It should only last a few minutes
After driving for 10 minutes or so battery voltage should show 13.5-13.7volts
Let engine idle and turn on ALL the electrics, lights fan blower to High, doors open, Radio cranked
Battery voltage should still show 13.5-13.7volts
If it dropped close to or below 13volts then alternator has a bad Field

Shut off engine/key
Battery voltage should be 12.3 to 12.8 volts and steady
If voltage is dropping then you have a shorted cell.

New battery will show 12.8-13volts
3-4 year old battery 12.5 volts
5-6 year old battery 12.3 volts
12.2 or lower will not start engine on cold morning, look for battery sale at 12.3 volts to save yourself a headache, lol.

85_Ranger4x4 · Jun 19, 2017

I am going to check the alternator at break (It is 5 years old, the battery was a 6yo $20 Econo Interstate) but I have new speculations.

I have been doing some poking around for min/max voltage for the Duraspark system to see if the alternator overcharging had something to do with it and if so how much over it would take...

When I did the DS conversion over 10 years ago I didn't do the resistor in the line to the coil. I figured since it was happy without DS so it shouldn't matter with DS. Kinda wondering about that

https://mustangforums.com/forum/classic-mustangs-tech/660671-does-anyone-know-for-100-ford-duraspark-2-a.html

I need to see what if anything my '85 EVTM and shop manuals have to say about troubleshooting this. On one hand if a $7 resister would fix it that would be great, on the other it is a tough sell Ford was still using 6v coils in 1985...

RonD · Jun 19, 2017

They weren't 6v coils, that's an old wives(mechanics) tale about why there were ballast resistors or resistor wires used

When vehicles did use 6volts the coils didn't get that hot, when system was switched to 12volts they did, and didn't last as long, so resistor was added, the higher voltage made starting a cold engine much better but wasn't needed once engine was running

Coils just run cooler with lower voltage so last longer, and once an engine is started you don't need the higher voltage spark, waste of voltage and coils longevity

Newer coils have current limiting circuit inside so no external resistor is required but doesn't hurt anything to keep resistor in the circuit, it is just redundant

85_Ranger4x4 · Jun 19, 2017

I know coils for older tractors (which are popular to be converted to 12v) are sold in 6v or 12v denominations.

Is it plausible that could be a problem though? And trickle thru the tach wire to kill the module too?

RonD · Jun 19, 2017

6v coils are really 3.5volt coils, lol, so yes they are different than 12volt coils
Ballast resistors are temp controlled resistors, when cold they allow more voltage to flow thru, as they heat up less voltage, and they were also used on 6v systems
This lower voltage also means less wear on the points, or transistors in electronic ignitions

Tack wire is connected to the "-" on the coil, so is a Ground wire, a short to ground on that wire would stop the coil from sparking, a coil sparks when Ground is removed, so constant Ground would not let it spark.

But shouldn't effect the ignition module, never looked that close at a tach circuit or internals of ignition module

Big Puddin · Jun 20, 2017

I'm old enough that when I first started driving (and it was older cars), they had stock points distributors. It is nowhere near the "work" many folks believe nowadays. You didn't have to constantly screw with points. They were cheap and easy and once every so often you might have to adjust the gap (really simple). I wouldn't hesitate to use a points distributor today for simplicity's sake, if I wanted to.
Some guys I've know, who drove Fords as daily's in hot climates, with durasparks, sometimes kept spare control module in glovebox. I know I've had a control module sort of melt to the inner fenderwell on a '68 F100 I had once that I converted to duraspark. Mine didn't fail to work, but it did weld some epoxy looking clear substance to the inner fender that was impossible to get off easy. BUT, other than the epoxy substance, the duraspark didn't fail me.
I've got a Skip White 1 wire HEI in my 351W, and it works great, despite being a very inexpensive distributor.

85_Ranger4x4 · Jun 20, 2017

Big Puddin said:
I'm old enough that when I first started driving (and it was older cars), they had stock points distributors. It is nowhere near the "work" many folks believe nowadays. You didn't have to constantly screw with points. They were cheap and easy and once every so often you might have to adjust the gap (really simple). I wouldn't hesitate to use a points distributor today for simplicity's sake, if I wanted to.
Some guys I've know, who drove Fords as daily's in hot climates, with durasparks, sometimes kept spare control module in glovebox. I know I've had a control module sort of melt to the inner fenderwell on a '68 F100 I had once that I converted to duraspark. Mine didn't fail to work, but it did weld some epoxy looking clear substance to the inner fender that was impossible to get off easy. BUT, other than the epoxy substance, the duraspark didn't fail me.
I've got a Skip White 1 wire HEI in my 351W, and it works great, despite being a very inexpensive distributor.

I have points in three of my tractors, as long as you get good points (harder and harder to do with them going overseas) I don't have much for issues. One was running kind of weird last year and I figured it has been 5 years I probably ought to change the points... no it was the gas.

Anyway, I remembered the 2.0 ran DSII so I broke out my '85 EVTM and compared. The 2.0 has a 1 ohm resistance wire feeding the coil, the 2.8 with the TFI does not. Rockauto shows both using the same E coils (2.0 has more options with the round can coils though)

So I am thinking this one is more my fault than anyones...

EDIT: The BWD part number for the pink 61" resister wire is RU13, O'Reilly's shows it for $31. BWD book says it is 1.35 ohms. A ceramic resistor of 1.35ohms is part number RU6 and costs about $5.

EDIT 04/30/18 - Ecoil seems to be the culpret, with RU6 resister and replacement oil filled DS coil all seems to be well.

Ignition Options

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