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For those thinking T-5 trans...


Black P-38

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My V-8 swap plans include using a T-5 to transmit as much power as possible to the pavement. Finding a good used trans can be a challenge, here's what happened to me...

I recently purchased what was advertised as a T-5 World Class trans from a '92 5.0 Mustang. I expected to receive a T-5 with a 3.35 to 1 first gear ratio and a 300 ft lb tq rating.

The identification tag was missing and upon receiving the unit I set about checking to see if it was really from a 5.0... it was NOT. This created two problems for me... One: I overpaid for a 4 cylinder unit, two: At 240 ft lbs tq rating it was NOT strong enough to hold up to my expected power output making it unusable for my project. I took a loss of over $200 by the time I finally resold the unit.

For those of you who are looking to buy a T-5 trans here is a little info that may be of help.

When considering a purchase, either check it out in person or have the seller check it for you. Below I have outlined a couple basic steps to help avoid buying the wrong unit.

When the tag is missing from a T-5 trans or the authenticity of the tag is in question there is a way to figure out it's basic origin. Measure the pilot sector on the input shaft. An easy way is to see if a 5/8" open end wrench will slip over the pilot shaft, it either will or it wont. If the wrench slips over the pilot sector it is NOT a V-8 World Class trans. V-8 models are .668 dia.

Another clue is the 1st gear ratio. Put the trans in first gear, mark a line on the input shaft and at the same spot on the retainer with a felt pen. Mark a line on the output shaft and at the same spot on the output shaft seal.

Turn the input shaft 'til the output shaft makes one full revolution and the marks line back up while counting how many turns the input shaft makes. First gear ratio is almost always 3.35 to 1 on V-8 models with a small number being 2.95 to 1, whereas most 4 cylinder models are 3.97 to 1.

The 10 spline input shaft makes it easy to count fractional rotation as each spline is counted as .1 revolution. In example, a 3.35 to 1 ratio will be 3 full input shaft revolutions plus 3.5 spline to one revolution of the output shaft. The 4 cylinder models will make almost exactly 4 revolutions making it easy to tell them apart.

Hope this is helpful to someone,
Mike
 


281Ranger

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The probblem is that most people are confused on what a "World Class" T-5 is.

World class T-5s had 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears riding on roller bearing instead of solid shafts. The countergears were upgraded to tapered bearings. The bronze syncro rings were replaced by fiber lined rings and dual cone designed rings to improve ring surface area.

And that's all that makes a World Class T-5. Ford started using them in late 1984 and they were used behind 4 cyl, 6cyl, and V8 engines. The problem is that the general public turned the phrase "World Class" into a buzz word for the V8 T-5s which is completely wrong.

The guy most likely did sell you a World Class T-5.
 

bottledgt

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used parts are used parts. the guy may have not known any better and thought he had a v8 t5. your gonna run into that from time to time when you buy used shit
 

mhughes165

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i wouldnt personally want a stock mustang t5 in any form anyways, with how i drive it would blow up in a week, i woulda put away some money and got one that would actually not go in short order
 

pineypower1186

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if u are gonna put the t-5 in a ranger make sure its not a 94-95 unit either. it has a longer input shaft and a wider bellhousing. if used in a ranger it pushes the shifter 1.5-2'' further back than the usual t-5 swap. and as for the strength issue, they are trash boxes stock but wit a lil cash and a call to astro performance ull be able to upgrade them to hold 500 h.p. and ull bump the torque rating up as well.
 

Black P-38

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Yes I know the difference between a non W/C and World Class T-5 regarding the internal upgrades. I was specifically shopping for a "late" model Mustang GT/LX 5.0 trans so I could get one with the stronger gear set and higher tq rating.

The trans was advertised as a World Class V-8 model removed from a '92 Mustang 5.0 GT, (which would make it a 300 ft lb rated W/C) and was sold to me by an Ebay store specializing in Mustang parts. I guess what I'm trying to point out is how easy it is to tell the difference between a 4 cylinder W/C T-5 and a V-8 W/C T-5, though they look very similar.

As for buying used parts, not everyone can afford to buy new for every project piece.

I chose the Tremec TKO 600 for my '94 Lightning 5 speed swap and I did buy it new. The Lightning makes alot of torque and stock weight is near 4500 lbs so I had to consider that as well as future mods when I rebuild it. The $1775 price tag was a bit hard to swallow when added to all the other pieces needed for the swap but I felt it was money well spent. After selling off the pieces I removed, it was still much cheaper than rebuilding the E4OD and ALOT more fun to drive!!!

The Ranger is gonna be a low budget project. I figure I can get by with a 300 ft lb rated T-5. A 2wd Ranger at 2800 lbs with 300 to 350 HP should be okay as long as I don't do something stupid. If I could afford to I'd buy a new T-56 and be done with it...

Mike
 

ponyexpress1994

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Gen I 5 spd manual conversion questions

Mike,

thanks for sharing your info about your TKO 600 conversion on your 94 Lightning. I am trying to achieve the same with my '93.

Bell housing options - 5.0 or truck V-8 bellhousing work?
or buy aftermarkert Lakewood
Clutch pedal - what/which do you recommend from the donor?
- is hydraulic clutch assist an easy option?
Drive shaft - donors? or shorten the current shaft?

Shifter - donor shifter either factory or aftermarkert?
- what is the location thru the trans tunnel inside the cab
Computer - burn a chip to eliminate trans shift senors & performance


any other things you wouldnt mind sharing about the install


thanks,
Steven C
704 616 0925
delmarvahome@gmail.com
 

Black P-38

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Thanks!!! glad to know there is some interest here.

For the Bell you can run steel or the TKO aluminum for SBF, which is what I run. The Ford truck housing wont work with the TKO trans. The pedals I got new from Ford, shop online for the best price... I paid $115 for the complete unit then later found it online for much less.

Clutch actuation, the big problem... I modified the TKO housing to accept a pull type slave which fits inside the factory dust cover. The master is a modified steel unit from CNC which I adapted to the firewall cover plate that comes on the auto equipped F-Series. You could probably use the factory plastic master with an adapter to allow connection of the line to the slave in which case you'll need the firewall plate from the manual model F-Series. Search online for 5 speed swap info and you'll find a couple "kits" or you can always go with a hydraulic release bearing, make sure it's designed for the TKO.

I got VERY lucky on the driveshaft, (you'll need a longer one). I searched the wreckers with a tape measure and found one that works perfectly, all I did was install my original trans and diff yokes with new U-joints, (yes the E4OD has the same spline count and diameter as the TKO). IIRC it was from an "88 F-250 crew cab 460 auto. It is actually the rear portion of the 2 pc driveline.

I used a crossmember and gusset brackets from an '88 4 speed F -Series, installed backwards in the other set of factory frame holes, drilled 2 holes in the crossmember for the trans mount studs and bolted the mount to the trans using a 5/8" aluminum spacer and longer bolts to keep the proper driveline angle, at least on my Lightning. This crossmember is cool because it requires no modification or fabbing and maintains the structural integrity of the frame. It also tucks neatly up in the frame rails so you lose the "Bronco 4x4" look. I always hated the way the stock E4OD member hung down.

The shifter...depends on your needs and seating. I removed the center seat and clearanced the front of the seat pan rail to allow use of the TKO as it comes with the shifter in the rearmost position. The problem with location is Fords extreme right offset of the motor. I fabbed an offset to relocate the stick 3" to the left and made my own stick from 3/8" aluminum sporting a 1 3/4" diameter black Hurst ball with 5 speed pattern. I have a 4" throw with a relatively short stick.

As for the E4OD and sensors, I converted from EFI to carb but a friend of mine in Illinois is still running EFI on his Lightning. He removed the MLPS switch from the trans, set it in neutral and tie wrapped it up inside the frame. He has had no issues and with just the 5 speed swap dropped to a 14.6 ET first time out from I believe a best of 15.2(?) He is currently running 6-8 PSI of Vortech and well into the 12's with a 2 ton truck, not bad!!!

A word of caution... use the best clutch you can afford or you will be replacing it within a couple years. I now have a Kevlar unit, I do use my truck daily for work so it sees pretty harsh duty.

Good Luck with your project and be sure to keep me posted on your progress!!!
Mike
 
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ponyexpress1994

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Follow up to Trans swap

Mike,

I really appreiate that you are sharing this info. I read your reply and still need to clarify some info.

1st - clutch pedal assembly. Do you have a Ford part number on that or more specific info. I was able to get a part # for a 1994 F150 from the local Ford dealer thats still available from Ford. At the bone yard, there are to types of brackets. One made from aluminum and the other from steel. Does that matter which one?

2nd - If I dont want to use the clutch master cylinder and use a conventional cable to move the clutch fork, do you have more info on that?

I found a website that show the conversion to mass air which uses a 87-93 Mustang ECM and other Mustang related parts like the mass air meter and O2 sensors. I believe an ECM for a manual trans Mustang would work to ignore looking for the auto trans. There's a pigback cable to add additonally to the current harness to make this work. And it would give the engine sequential fuel injection as well.

Is it possible that we could talk by phone about the conversion?

thanks,
Steven C
704 616 0925
 

Black P-38

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Hey Steven,
No prob... glad to help where I can.

The Ford part # for currently available unit is correct and has the steel bracket like mine.
It's a pain to remove the assembly at a wrecking yard so unless you can have the part pulled for you and save alot of money it's hardly worth it for used parts that are probably worn. Just pulling your brake pedal and installing the set in it's place is alot of work in tight quarters and a most uncomfortable position to work in. I did the pedal swap first to get it out of the way while I was still driving the truck and collecting parts. It gave me the chance to get used to the smaller brake pedal and reduced foot space.
I later replaced the E brake pedal with a console/floor mounted '07 'stang hand brake so I have more footwell room than ever.

A cable set-up relies on a quadrant like the 'stangs but I can see no room under the dash to accomodate it and am unaware of anyone running such a set-up.

It is unneccesary to do a mass air swap for the sake of the 5 speed. As for SEFI, it's only sequential up to a limited rpm, then reverts to standard bank fire. Even guys who mod their 5.0/5.8 have had great success tuning with the TwEECer rather than doing the Mass Air conversion. You can learn more about tuning Speed density with the TwEECer on the Lightning sites.

Love to chat on the phone but I'm currently working 3 different construction jobs simultaineously and have little time to sleep. Be glad to when work eases up a bit and I get a weekend off. I see it's 7:30 here and I should have been at work by now so I'd better get going.

Keep me posted!!!
Mike
 

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