Rebuild block or buy new engine?

I could really use some advice on this one: I have a 2000 3.0 Ranger and I recently rebuilt the heads since two exhaust valves have sunk about 5% per a compression test. I went to install the heads and 5 total bolts spun in the block. I was torquing them to 68 ft lbs when they spun. I checked to see if the minimum torque was reached of 63 ft lbs and it was so I put everything together and hoped for the best. I drove around for about three weeks and I noticed I was consuming coolant, so I pressure checked my system and I am leaking from both heads. Ideally I want to get a short block and put the heads on it but I cannot find one, so I began looking into re-manufactured engines and most places either have surprisingly bad reviews or the engine is pretty expensive and money is rather tight. So here is my dilemma: should I replace the engine, should I rebuild my current block (about $40-$55 per hole along with new oil pump, piston rings, crank bearings, crankshaft position sensor and crankshaft oil seal) or just get a new block and transfer what I can over? I was looking into a short block or rebuilding due to odd sound during coasting and/or declaration; I don't even know how to describe it. It might even be a transmission for all I know but I am attempting to eliminate the need to tear into my engine like this again for another 100,000+ miles.

Did you use brand new head bolts when you put everything back together? The head bolts are "Torque to Yield", which means they stretch in order to hold properly, and they shouldn't be reused because they can't re-stretch. I'm assuming if you found torque specs, then you already know this, but you didn't mention it. Poor clamping from reused head bolts could definitely cause symptoms you're talking about. I've never heard of this issue with the 3.0, so to have it happen on several bolts at the same time would be unusual.

That being said, if the head bolts aren't the issue, I'd just look for a junkyard motor. It's not uncommon to find running motors from a Taurus for under $500. If you put your Ranger intake and exhaust manifolds on it, it should bolt right in. Probably the best "bang for your buck" option.

John.R.Vreeland said:

I went to install the heads and 5 total bolts spun in the block. I was torquing them to 68 ft lbs when they spun. I checked to see if the minimum torque was reached of 63 ft lbs and it was so I put everything together and hoped for the best.

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What do you mean by they "spun in the block". If spun is what I think it sounds like, even at 63 ft-lb they shouldn't be spinning. from what I'm reading, I think the heads aren't properly torqued and need to start over on that part. Get you a tap that matches the bolt size to clean the threads in the block and new head bolts.

Stmitch- I have two manuals I used to repair my heads and they required new bolts so I purchased new OEM bolts from the dealership. I was also thinking about getting a junkyard engine but I have had rather bad luck with junkyard parts and the last thing I want to do is put one it to pull it again. I would feel much better with a re-manufactured engine.

JoshT- What happened is when I put the gasket and heads on I threaded the bolts into the block, torqued all 8 bolts to the seating torque of 59 ft lbs, loosened a full turn, torqued them to 37 ft lbs, then attempted to go to the final torque of 68 ft lbs and the bolt just spun never reaching the 68 ft lbs. I lowered the torque wrench to the minimum range of the final torquing stage (63) and the wrench clicked (it was a break away wrench). I pulled the bolt that spun out, checked the threads on the bolt and they were fine, pulled the head off, bought a large tap set and couldn't match a tap to the threads so I used a new head bolt as a tap in all the holes and tried to torque them again with the same result but this time I just left it. I never reused a bolt once.

In 1999 3.0l got longer head bolts, so hopefully dealer didn't goof up.
1998 and earlier bolts are OVER an inch shorter, so could loose grip since they wouldn't be getting into the treads enough when snug and then torqued.

HEAD BOLTS
Ford has used two different head bolts for the 3.0L motors. The original head bolts that were used up through '98 were 4.34" long from top to bottom. Ford increased the overall length of the bolts by about an inch to 5.50" in '99. Moving the threads deeper in the block helped reduce bore distortion which enabled the engine to make more power with lower emissions.

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OR

Someone may have swapped in an older 3.0l, 1998 or earlier, so longer bolts bottomed out
1999 and up 3.0l block will have recessed head bolt threads, you will see about 1/2" unthreaded hole then threads start, 1998 and older have threads starting at top of the block.


Tough call on the block, I guess best thing to do is to remove the heads and get a look at the thread damage, and also confirm what year engine is in there and what length head bolts you have.

Good read here on the 3.0l details: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/3_0-build.shtml

The 3.0l blocks out of other Ford models, including front wheel drive are exactly the same, per model year, there was a different cam used in the Ranger engines to get better torque, but most have said they didn't notice a difference, in a straight swap.
If you go that route you should use head gaskets for Ranger model, they are different from front wheel drive models.

RonD said:

In 1999 3.0l got longer head bolts, so hopefully dealer didn't goof up.
1998 and earlier bolts are OVER an inch shorter, so could loose grip since they wouldn't be getting into the treads enough when snug and then torqued.


OR

Someone may have swapped in an older 3.0l, 1998 or earlier, so longer bolts bottomed out
1999 and up 3.0l block will have recessed head bolt threads, you will see about 1/2" unthreaded hole then threads start, 1998 and older have threads starting at top of the block

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I knew about the different lengths of bolts so when I got the new bolts I compared them to the ones I removed and they were the same length, but I suppose that they still could be the incorrect ones and bottoming out so when I take this thing apart again I'll measure and compare. I'll also look to see when the threads start and verify with the dealership the bolts are the correct length, thanks for the insight!

It sure sounds to me like the threads in the block are fubar. I've never ran into that problem myself but have only rebuilt a couple motors. But I have stripped out lots of threads in other applications. Latest was breaking three wheel studs when I torqued the rear wheels on my race truck. I replaced all the studs in that case. If you're satisfied with the blocks rings and bearings, perhaps you could fix the block threads with heli-coil or similar, or maybe studs?

I'm not sure what to think about the spinning bolt issue, but it certainly doesn't sound good. Torque wrench set to 63 fl-lb it clicks, but to 68 fl-lb it never clicks. I'd certainly be taking a better look at the threads in that block to make sure they aren't stripped, but if they are stripped they are stripped and it should do the same thing at 63 ft-lb. It should also be obvious from looking at the threads of the spinning bolt, when you remove it they should be damaged unless the threads in the block are non-existant, buy then you'd have the issue at the lower torque steps as well.

I think I'd also be looking at the tools used. Are you sure about the condition of your torque wrench? Did you buy it new, if not have you had it recalibrated since you bought it? Has it ever been dropped, and if so was it recalibrated after?

Torque wrenches will go out of calibration over time, especially if dropped. I'm an aircraft mechanic working on F-15 fighters and use click style torque wrenches a lot. One thing I've personally experienced with these is that they can have a very soft break at some torque settings and it's easy to miss. It sounds to me more like you aren't reaching the correct torque spec, but also make sure that you aren't missing a soft click.

I have first hand experience with a torque wrench messing up a head install. First few times I did head gaskets on my 99 Ranger it was with my dad's old torque wrench. Both times they started leaking again. Finally I went to Sears and bought a new torque wrench, and haven't had a problem with the passenger side head since. We eventually found a bur on the driver side of the block that was causing that head gasket to erode over time, but it's been going for about little over 10K miles now with no further problem.

Always Floored- I have only found one reseller of studs and they were $400, but I don't want to put studs in there if the bolts themselves don't even torque properly and as for heli-coils I talked to a couple different engine repair/rebuild shops they recommended staying away from them for the block application.
JoshT- I have used two different breakaway wrenches and they both yielded the same result, I want to get my hands on an electrical torque wrench and see what the torque I am reaching but I cannot find one to borrow and I don't want to buy one, they are expensive.

What I am looking for is what do my fellow ranger drivers think: would it be better to repair/rebuild my current block or should I buy a new block replace the internals, or should I just buy a whole new engine and swap all the accessories over like the A/C compressor, alternator etc.? What would be the most cost effective and last the longest?

If the block is damaged, I wouldn't waste any more time or money on it.

Used engine + rebuild kit (rings, bearings, gaskets)+ misc small stuff can have you back in running order for under $1000, and should last pretty much as long as a brand new 3.0.

The only downside, is that it takes more time than buying a reman, and having the swap done in a weekend.

Guess that makes it unlikely that the torque wrench is at fault. Was just trying to help find other culprits in hopes it wasn't the engine. Definitely sounds like something with the engine then.

Most cost effective option would be fixing your current block without a rebuild. If it's high mileage and needs a rebuild I'd try to rebuild the current block if it's salvageable, depending on the condition of internals you may be able to go back with all standard sized rings and bearings (did on my 180K 4.0L). Replacing the block isn't a great option because you don't know what issues you may be inheriting, if that were necessary I'd try to get a reman short block with a warranty. Which will be longest lasting is a toss up.

WWJ(osh)D? First I'd want to get a a better inspection of that current block. I'd want to verify that the issue was or was not with the block before moving on. It makes no sense to me that they torque to 63# but just keep spinning above that. If it's doing that their should be visible damage on the bolt, or visible damage to the threads in the block. If I couldn't find visible damage I'd go find a tap (preferably a bottoming tap, non pointed like a starter tap) that fit the head bolt holes and chase the threads. That will tell me even more about their condition than running a bolt through there. I'd then I'd use an old gasket and bolt and try installing the head and torquing it to spec. Old bolt is okay here because I'm not trying to run it, just checking to make sure it torques. If that did work, I'd make the decision to either reinstall the heads perminitely and reinstall, or to strip it down to bare block and have it (and the crank) cleaned and checked by a machine shop. If it did not work, I'd decide whether to have a machine shop inspect and attempt to fix the block or just get a reman short/long block.

In my own recent experience with a driver side 4.0L head gasket leak, I ended up rebuilding the stock block. Repeated issues with the gasket eroding between a rear cylinder and a water jacket. After replacing the head gasket too many times we pulled the block ourselves and checked it. After finding no issues I took it to local machine shop and had them clean and check the block and crank. A bur was found on the back edge of the deck surface on the driver side, still not sure how we missed it the previous times. They said that cylinders and crank were in spec, so cylinders were honed and crank journals were polished. The bottom end was was reassembled with stock speck rebuild parts. IIRC I'm approaching 15K miles on it which is longer than any of the previous driver side head gaskets lasted.

I never asked earlier.. When torquing, does it kinda feel like it loosens up a bit and is easier to spin after it passes the 63# point, or is it still tight to torque? I'm honestly wandering if you just haven't reached the 68# yet.

When I first discovered the issue I set the torque wrench to 68 ft lbs and attempted to torque the bolt until it snapped just above the block/head mating surface. No damage occurred to the engine that was visible. There was a constant pressure on the bolt as I was turning it, it never got easier then harder which confuses me since that makes me think that threads aren't damaged. When I pulled the broken bolt out of the block I checked the threads and they weren't damaged or distorted in anyway. I want to borescope the thread holes to see them but uh, that is a little impractical.
When I take my engine apart I'll try to find a tap again, but if that doesn't work I guess I'll try repairing the block IF it is worth it. Ideally I would like to find a short block to bolt my heads to but I cannot find one, I can only find entire re-manufactured engines which I really don't want. Do you know someone that makes short blocks? I went as far as checking the dealership who aren't "authorized" to carry them. If I repair my block/get a new one would it be worth replacing everything to include pushrods, crankshaft, pistons, and timing chain or is that unnecessary and should I only worry about the rings, bearings, oil pump and seals?

It's unlikely that you'd need replacement hard parts like the crank or pistons, but you should obviously be thorough if you do any kind of teardown. But, if you're taking a longblock apart, I'd absolutely replace the rings, bearings, gaskets/seals, and timing chain. If the engine you're tearing into has over 100,ooo miles then I'd consider new valve springs too.

Edit: Don't know where you're located, but there's a used long block for sale in the classifieds right now for a really nice price. If you're looking for a rebuild candidate, and it's close to you, then it seems like a good deal.

short block $100 www.Therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1531704#post1531704