stalling problem every few days

purple_fluffer · Nov 27, 2015

happened again today. bogged down on the interstate. kept it in gear and it finally took off like normal so I didn't get stuck. should have let it die and checked what the fuel pump was doing.

so it wasn't the relay. what else?

will try to get a 12V test light and hook it up to the inertia switch (like said above) to see what that tells me.

tomw · Nov 28, 2015

Fuel pump or filter could be limiting flow. There is a 'sock' on the intake of the fuel pump in the tank. They can get crudded up and block flow until the pump turns off, limiting flow.
I don't think you would have been able to tell if the pump stopped in your last 'go round' where you just kept going after it bogged, too much noise. You can get a gauge, connect it and tape it to the windshield if you REALLY want to know.
How many miles on the pump? If original, it might be dying due to worn out brushes, or overheating due to bad bearings for the impeller/armature, slowing, and cutting flow.
If you decide to swap the pump, you can get a complete sending unit with gauge and pump, or an aftermarket pump only. You can raise the bed easier than dropping the fuel tank(my opinion) and it doesn't take more than 2 people to prop it sideways or raise the cab-end of the bed and rest it on 2x4's or ???. Clean around the attachment if you do.
tom

purple_fluffer · Nov 30, 2015

happened again today. this episode was much worse.

after 30 min, started and drove a few blocks, died.
repeat several times. eventually made it home.

turn the ignition to ON and listen with the hose:

usually no noise from the fuel pump. (not working)

sometimes it made grinding/crackling noises.

sometimes it did work and you could hear it, but engine still wouldn't start. only coughed and sputtered.

therefore, listening with the hose doesn't really tell you when you can try to crank the motor (like I thought) because as I found out, noise from the fuel pump doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work. it does help to diagnose the problem. if you don't hear the fuel pump or hear grinding/crackling, you know the fuel pump is bad.

the only sure way to get going again is to give it time. wait at least 10 minutes, then try cranking once every 5 minutes. (if it isn't going to start, it's not going to start. if it does, it will start right up. don't waste battery because with this and a dead battery you need a tow truck) it has started every time within 35 minutes at most. if it doesn't start after 40 minutes it's time to worry.

so I was sitting there with the hose coming out the gas tank and going in the rolled-up window so I could listen to it with my ear. it was just hanging there while I wait another 5 minutes to try again. the police pulled up. put their hands on their guns and told me to show my hands. after I told them what I was doing, they informed me that someone driving by had called the police because they thought I was trying to commit suicide.

we got a laugh out of that.

stopped at AutoZone on the way home and got a fuel pump. will install it tomorrow.

tomw · Dec 1, 2015

If your fuel pump has given up whirring and instead makes grinding and crackling noises, it's time to get one that will agree to whirr on command. Maybe IT is committing self-destruction, by melting any plastic bits due to the heat of sparks or friction.
I guess inhaling fuel tank fumes for long enough could end with fatal results, but I would bet you'd get hungry or have other needs before that.
tom

enjr44 · Dec 1, 2015

Well, once it quits for good you will probably fix it!!

purple_fluffer · Dec 1, 2015

didn't know how tall the fuel tank was, didn't know if I had to jack up the back of the truck or not. so I took the bed off. easy!

then found out I could have just dropped the tank. had enough clearance. ;brownbag;

removed fuel pump assembly. installed new pump on the assembly. getting ready to put it in...

oh wait. there's a little crumb of something in there. (see picture) heck I'll just fish it out with my hand.

when I did that, the "shady stuff" smudged around. turns out to be some sort of filth. rubbed my fingers... it's gritty.

could be what caused the fuel pump to fail.

it's very, very fine but you can tell it's gritty. just fine enough to get through the filter. (which is not clogged but full of this stuff)

now I have some questions.

1. does that look normal for a truck with 150,000 miles on it? (I want to know if that's normal or it might have been put there)

2. what could it be? rubber from the filler hose? graphite? ground glass, ground rust, or something? does sugar turn black when added to gas?

Mark_88 · Dec 1, 2015

Can't really tell from the image what it is...if it is gritty it could be sand from the filler station tanks...who knows what kind of carp makes its way into those things...but could also have been introduced to your tank directly...

Sugar in the tank doesn't do much to harm your engine...and probably would dissolve in gas...I would take a guess to it being sand...

If it were someone trying to sabotage your truck...who knows...

I will have to edit my suggestion...have a garage clean out the tank if they can...you don't want to risk blowing yourself up unless you are very familiar with handling fuel containers...well ventilated area with running fans and no sparks...and don't use candles to check the bottom...

tomw · Dec 2, 2015

Putting the tank back in place and getting the straps back where they belong is more difficult than moving the bed up and down.
I can't tell from the picture what it is either. If the darkish areas are sediment of some kind, the grit, then it may just be accumulation of little bits of stuff from all the fuel that has been run through it.
I doubt it ate up the pump as most of the time it would be setting on the bottom of the tank. It takes a lot of slosh and shaking to get that stuff to come up off the bottom.
In Other Words: put your new pump in place, seal it up, and put it back together. The new sending unit should have come with a sock for the pickup. If this stuff will get through the sock, then the pump can handle it, and just pump it on through. If not, it will stay in the tank.
You can spend a bunch of time and money, but I don't think you'll be much better off.
You could pump the tank dry, or close, get some box fans and have them blowing across the work area, and use rags and a broom stick to swab the bottom of the tank. You'd get the majority of what's there. Again, I think I'd leave it.
tom

enjr44 · Dec 2, 2015

Well, I don't know what to think. My best guess, it is crap delivered with a zillion fill-ups. But, who knows. Grit can be pretty hard on fluid impellers (what pumps the stuff). But, that stuff is so small. Supposedly, it it can get through the filters it should not hurt anything. After changing the fuel filter, a number of folks on here have cut open their old filters and reported finding them full of black crap. So maybe it is normal stuff you get with fuel.

I guess if I was in a hurry, I'd just put it back together and figure it was good for another ten years (if you were having a shop doing it would be back in your driveway already).

If I had all the time in the world, I think I would empty the fuel out of it (always fun to figure out what to do with that). Flush the tank with water. Scrub it with is something like simple green. Flush with water at least a couple more times. Dry it out using a fan blowing air into it for as long as it takes and put it back together knowing you did one hell of a job.

Your truck, your time, Ed

enjr44 · Dec 2, 2015

Well, I don't know what to think. My best guess, it is crap delivered with a zillion fill-ups. But, who knows. Grit can be pretty hard on fluid impellers (what pumps the stuff). But, that stuff is so small. Supposedly, it it can get through the filters it should not hurt anything. After changing the fuel filter, a number of folks on here have cut open their old filters and reported finding them full of black crap. So maybe it is normal stuff you get with fuel.

I guess if I was in a hurry, I'd just put it back together and figure it was good for another ten years (if you were having a shop doing it would be back in your driveway already).

If I had all the time in the world, I think I would empty the fuel out of it (always fun to figure out what to do with that). Flush the tank with water. Scrub it with is something like simple green. Flush with water at least a couple more times. Dry it out using a fan blowing air into it for as long as it takes and put it back together knowing you did one hell of a job.

Your truck, your time, Ed

purple_fluffer · Dec 2, 2015

got it all put together. started right up.

this was an intermittent problem, so I will have to wait another week or 2 to see if it got fixed.

tomw · Dec 4, 2015

Didja try fiddling with the old pump? Or take it apart for inspection? I'd bet the armature doesn't turn smoothly, due to bearing wear out or brushes worn so much they're coming out of their retainers. If you do, post a few pics.
tom

purple_fluffer · Dec 5, 2015

wouldn't mind taking it apart to see what the heck. how do you get it apart? looks like a sealed unit.

RonD · Dec 5, 2015

I believe in tank fuel pump motors are brushless these days, less chance of electrical sparks.

I doubt you could find the fault on disassembly

purple_fluffer · Dec 5, 2015

o.k. I was wondering if it would make a good aquarium pump... but I don't have an aquarium. maybe turn it into an electric squirt gun. 60 PSI should have some good range.

stalling problem every few days

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