no spark

fresh OH, 2.9 1986;
had it running, no more than 50miles on it after the OH.
trouble is with ignition...it has been dieing after its warm...and just cruz'n under 25mph-coasting to the stop sign. once stalled...very difficult to restart. I suspect a broken wire in the OEM wire harness... checked ground's & connection till I'm blue in the face. everything is new coil to plugs (outside the wiring harness and pick up coil under the distrib). I can hear the fuel pump run so I'm pretty sure this is just electrical

is there somewhere the checks wiring harness...remove it let them have at it?? I have a donor truck ~BUT I already found 1 bad connection it ...fear I would be just trading problems.

the donor is a 87' and my "project is 86' is there differences between the 2?

I have new parts for the pick-up coil...IS there enough room to remove the distribor, without taking off the upper intake??

Is ther aftermaket ignition system that would "by-pass" the oem ignition harness??

thanks

OK, does it die with no spark, and not start again until the engine has cooled down?

'Cause those are symptoms of the distributor-mounted ignition module failure.

You did use heat-conducting grease on the new igntion module, right? If that doesn't sound familiar, you may have fried yours.

MAKG said:

OK, does it die with no spark, and not start again until the engine has cooled down?

'Cause those are symptoms of the distributor-mounted ignition module failure.

You did use heat-conducting grease on the new igntion module, right? If that doesn't sound familiar, you may have fried yours.

Click to expand...

I full confess that I am not a electrically ...um "inclined"...shall we say.

agreed...its symptoms smacks of bad TFI module. the 1st time it fired right back up...the second I disconected & checked a couple if things...then it fired up???...this last time it just died on the driveway...it wasn't fully warmed up and hasn't refired since.

I check for spark with a timing light...if it lights there is spark. No light~ No spark. agreed?!

& yes i used the dieletric grease.

things I checked:

I got another TFI off the "donor" it is motorcraft....it checked out fine...according to the tech library here...BUT I don't understand the last 3 checks where D1 to BASE, D2 to BASE ,& D3 to BASE.....what is the "BASE" that it is refer to???
Actually the motorcraft comes closest to the numbers listed, than any (4)that I do have. the accel unit has simular #'s ...except...for D1-H5 & D3-H5 both cases I get 1, set on 20k ohm's

I have battery voltage to the 2nd and 4 pin of the connector of the TFI.

I have full continuity on the hot wires to the coil and for the ground...nno breaks there. pretty sure of that recheck today.

I swapped out the accel coil with another off the donor ...no difference but the donor wasn't running either when I got it..it was more for body parts & etc. Unknown issues, other that heads/gaskets were toast


i suspect/think/fear... that I'm down to the pick-up coil (under the distributor) Is that also called the PIP?

any other sugestion??

Heat-conducting grease and dielectric grease are not at all the same thing.

Dielectric grease is a pretty good heat-insulator. Its purpose is to keep water out.

I think that tech library article means the case-ground. Where the TFI connects to the distributor (you can substitute the distributor body IF you know it's making good contact -- which is kinda doubtful if you used dielectric grease).

There is a such thing as a TFI tester and many auto parts stores have them behind the counter (along with the starter tester and so on). Take your TFI in and have it tested. Note that this kind of failure very often gets false negatives -- you always test it cool. But if it gets a positive, it's definitely bad. But your results are indicating both your TFIs are blown. You're getting open circuits where you shouldn't. I'd suggest confirming that with a tester unless you're real sure.

MAKG said:

Heat-conducting grease and dielectric grease are not at all the same thing.

Dielectric grease is a pretty good heat-insulator. Its purpose is to keep water out.

I think that tech library article means the case-ground. Where the TFI connects to the distributor (you can substitute the distributor body IF you know it's making good contact -- which is kinda doubtful if you used dielectric grease).

There is a such thing as a TFI tester and many auto parts stores have them behind the counter (along with the starter tester and so on). Take your TFI in and have it tested. Note that this kind of failure very often gets false negatives -- you always test it cool. But if it gets a positive, it's definitely bad. But your results are indicating both your TFIs are blown. You're getting open circuits where you shouldn't. I'd suggest confirming that with a tester unless you're real sure.

Click to expand...

thanks
OK will clean and use Heat - conducting grease....I take it that back metal panel on th TFI is suppose to make contact??

I guess i got the impression that it should be sheilded from heat to protect from getting heat soaked...& that the only contact is thru the 3 electrical spades to the pick-up coil..not the back panel

on the last 3 checks of the TFI D1, D2, & D3 to base(back panel)... I get nothing ~no continunity~or full resistance! on any of them i have.

If they mean to the base of the distributor??? how are you suppose to install this TFI and test??? you can't get to the pins/spades to check D1, D2, & D3 to base???

haynes says "Be sure to wipe the back side of the module clean and apply a film of dielectric grease (essential for cool operation of the module) - DO NOT use any other type of grease!" as for removing the distributor, take the upper intake off, its pretty quick and easy and makes a ton of room. thats all i can help with right now but i will be keeping an eye on this thread because im having similar problems

kunar said:

haynes says "Be sure to wipe the back side of the module clean and apply a film of dielectric grease (essential for cool operation of the module) - DO NOT use any other type of grease!" as for removing the distributor, take the upper intake off, its pretty quick and easy and makes a ton of room. thats all i can help with right now but i will be keeping an eye on this thread because im having similar problems

Click to expand...

Been watch'n yours too.
agreed with the upper intake off....much more room...just hate to UNdo things.
yes, closer reading on the 2 manuals (ford & chilton's) i have both state "use silicone dielectric compound or equivalent" as well. hmmm Is grease the same as compound???

Has there been a update to change to this "heat- conducting grease????????

How much do are you suppose to put on of this compound??? thin coat???, er thick??

I see in the chilton that when replaceing the PIP coil...you have to remove the gear that is driven by the cam....they make it look/seem too easy??
I have several distributors...tried to remove a couple of the those gears...can't get any to budge. I stop for fear of wreck'n them to point of not being useable.... it looks like the subshaft (that drives the oil pump)area below the gear....that is part of the entire thru shaft to the top of the distributor?? meaning that the just the gear slide off???

thanks!

IMenriched said:

Been watch'n yours too.
agreed with the upper intake off....much more room...just hate to UNdo things.
yes, closer reading on the 2 manuals (ford & chilton's) i have both state "use silicone dielectric compound or equivalent" as well. hmmm Is grease the same as compound???

Has there been a update to change to this "heat- conducting grease????????

How much do are you suppose to put on of this compound??? thin coat???, er thick??

I see in the chilton that when replaceing the PIP coil...you have to remove the gear that is driven by the cam....they make it look/seem too easy??
I have several distributors...tried to remove a couple of the those gears...can't get any to budge. I stop for fear of wreck'n them to point of not being useable.... it looks like the subshaft (that drives the oil pump)area below the gear....that is part of the entire thru shaft to the top of the distributor?? meaning that the just the gear slide off???

thanks!

Click to expand...

i got a rebuilt motorcraft distributor from advance autoparts for $79 and change.less hassle.takes about a day to get because they had to order.no regrets.

you might find out if your year truck has an intermitant code "wiggle" test where you wiggle the harness and see if codes get thrown.i'de check the tfi/distributor first though.watch out installing the module that the pip connectors facing up are seating in the dist.

rickcdewitt said:

you might find out if your year truck has an intermitant code "wiggle" test where you wiggle the harness and see if codes get thrown.i'de check the tfi/distributor first though.watch out installing the module that the pip connectors facing up are seating in the dist.

Click to expand...

intermittant code?? Ummm it's not running...or will this happen with KOEO???

can you elaberate on your last sentence??? exspeially "that pip connector facing up are seating in the distrib" ?? If ya mean the 3 vertical contacts/spade terminals...there is not much other place they can go????

can you see them clearly if the cap is off?? I had the TFI on and off SOOOO many times this last week...in aint funny checking this and that.

any other advice or hints are welcomed....THANKS

update;

did a few more checks, with the help of a friend who has more experience.

Ended up swapping out (new) the pick-up coil...(the one under the distributor cap).
got it to fire up...yeeeeeHA.

but I forgot to pull the little spout so trying to get the base timimg wasn't to good...it stalled a few times &sputtered and the battery was low...& sun was setting, so my light was fading fast.

so put the battery charger on and went in to get some grub and clean up.

should be able to get it better from here...will keep you advised.

thanks again for all the advice

closer examination

Ok ..I just swapped out whole distributors...the one I put the new pick-up coil in had the "octane rod" in didn't think that was a big deal seeing as everything was the same and the original distrib had the interior pin for the octane rod onthe pick-up coil that was bad.

Now i can't turn the distributor enough to advance the timing...the extra boss on the distrib housing for th octane rod hits the back fuel injector

IF i pull the distrib and roll it back 1 tooth (TFI towards the firewall) will that be too much and I wont be able to get enough timing retard to get it to run with a whoot ????

Or do i have to use the distributor without the octane rod port/boss????

I'm confused. I thought all 2.9L distributors have octane rods.

Take the dist cap off. look at the steel cup with six notches in it. One is different from the others; that's #1. Put the crank at TDC/compression on #1 and install the dist so that the PIP pickup is nearest that different notch. THEN reinstall the dist cap and set base timing.

You are removing the SPOUT pill for this, right? You won't be able to retard the timing nearly enough to get the advanced idle timing down to 10 deg. But base idle timing ought to work.

MAKG said:

I'm confused. I thought all 2.9L distributors have octane rods.

Take the dist cap off. look at the steel cup with six notches in it. One is different from the others; that's #1. Put the crank at TDC/compression on #1 and install the dist so that the PIP pickup is nearest that different notch. THEN reinstall the dist cap and set base timing.

You are removing the SPOUT pill for this, right? You won't be able to retard the timing nearly enough to get the advanced idle timing down to 10 deg. But base idle timing ought to work.

Click to expand...

the one I pulled out didn't have one...nor did it have the side hole for it.
according to teh chiltons book with the electronic ignition it wasn't necissary...mabe I'm reading into it abit....the impression I got was that the octane rod was more for 2.8 that didn't have auto timing advance. I got 3 on the bench without them. this one was the best out of the group.

any-how...can I pull the distrib up and rotate the 1 tooth of the gear on the cam without going too far??